Home > Crime > Martin MacNeill Murder Trial – Day 14

Martin MacNeill Murder Trial – Day 14

11/08/2013

Yikes!  What a strange trial.  So much of MacNeill’s character, or lack thereof, was withheld from the jury as the state was hobbled from presenting it.  The jury would have had a field day!  And, what was up with the defense witnesses?  They added nothing to the defense,  A complete joke.

Dypsy did no good other than proving she’s a liar.  Hopefully the jury realizes all the inmates had basically the same story.

Today will be long with the discussion of jury instructions.  Guess it’s all going to hinge on closings.

We begin about the directed verdict based on the arguments yesterday.

Court denies the directed verdict.

Neither side takes issue with the final jury instructions.

Jury receiving copies of the jury instructions.  The big thing here, that is the toughest, but most interesting is the instruction on reasonable doubt.

Alexis in court, as is Rachel.

Reasonable doubt…. up to prosecution to prove.  Proof that leaves you firmly convinced of the defendants guilt.  If you find a reasonable doubt, you must find the defendant not guilty.

The judge isn’t just breezing through this, he’s reading with feeling.

A bunch of testimony certainly goes to depraved indifference!

Both sides stipulate this was not a suicide.

Grunander on closing.

Claims MacNeil murdered Michele.  It was not a heart condition.  It was a planned out murder.  He had the knowledge and means.

Pros has placed a beautiful photo of Michele on an easel.

The case is dripping with motive.

Dypsy took the stand and said their relationship was casual trying to protect MacNeill by minimizing the relationship!

MacNeill’s motive and knowledge and know-how are doing him in!

While we have all complained how dull this trial has been, I have to give kudos to Grunander for this closing.  He is beautifully laying out the timeline and weaving all the testimony together to present the full story!  He is highlighting all of MacNeill’s lies.

Between 9”30 and 11 on the 11th, nobody knows where MacNeill was.

Grunander thanks the jury for their time and attention, wraps up a beautiful closing argument and ties a neat little bow around it!

Uggggg, Spencer on closing.  ‘I’m a rambling man’ is going to be playing in my head!

Spencer has brought in huge flip charts.

He thanks the jury for their service.

Accuses the pros of cherry picking to make his case.

Oh lord, he is telling the same Aesop fable Gustin opened with.

MacNeil was living an alternative lifestyle and that justifies moving Dypsy in!!!!!

Holy guacamole!

MacNeill was in the wrong place at the wrong time!

This is insulting.  He’s treating the jurors as idiots..

MacNeill didn’t interfere with Dr. Fricke’s autopsy.

Ummmm, except he lied to her!!!

Oh, I get it now.  Spencer attended a different trial than us!

Nancy Grace did it with the candlestick in the library!

Spencer is playing medical examiner and failing because he’s losing the jury.

Says all 3 ME said myocarditis. Perper said no myocarditis!

Spencer is blowing smoke big time.

I just want to bitch-slap the grin off Spencer’s face.

Says Alexis’ testimony was ever changing.

Ben Casey and Dr. Kildare were far better medical shows.

Donchais going for the nail gun!!!  Also looking for whatever rusty nails I have on have on-hand.

Spencer is only proving the village idiot is missing!

Court observers report the jury is into an intense game of hangman!

As usual, Spencer is all over the place and not presenting a cohesive timeline.

Guess Spencer believes if he slings enough BS, something may stick!

Where is Quincy ME?

Boy, this def closing is one of the worst I’ve seen.  A rousing razz berry for the defense!

State to finish.

Perkins says what you’ve heard in arguments is not evidence.

Follow the instructions, not speculations.

He’s beating the crap out of Spencer’s speculation.

It’s not up to the ME to decide the cause of death, it’s up to you!

You are the fact finders from the entire body of evidence.

Arrhythmia doesn’t leave a footprint.  Can only be proven if the patient is hooked to a heart monitor while dying.

Why weren’t there signs of struggle?  She was drugged!

Good on Perkins blowing the defense out of the water!

Spencer, can you say, ‘oh crap?’

Way good closing by pros!

There is no way all these witnesses could have colluded to create these stories against MacNeill!

Pros needs to shut down…jury tired.

Know when to stop!

Bench…

Wow, just saw the strings hanging out of the back of Spencer’s, suit jacket!!!!

Jury given the case and sent to lunch; alternates named.

Jury watch on!

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  1. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/08/2013 at 4:31 pm

    Donchais/Ritanita….do you get some kind of alert telling you the verdict is in? If we monitor the screen here will you be posting the notification that the verdict is in?

  2. ritanita
    11/08/2013 at 4:37 pm

    I’m using Twitter and checking from time to time. If there are jury questions, I’m hoping that the feed from WAT will show them live as they did for JA trial. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing what the station (13?) will do and that is the feed WAT uses.

    If you want to check twitter, try Ben Winslow who has been reporting from the courtroom.

    Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow

    His avatar is a cartoon guy on a red background.

    I’m off for dinner soon and RL. Otherwise, I’ll be pacing with everyone.

  3. Schaeffer
    11/08/2013 at 4:37 pm

    Donchais — what was all the hubbub about “Where were Michele’s pants?” This was brought up repeatedly during the trial and in the closings, and I still don’t know why this point is so contentious. Was he trying to undress Michele AFTER he drowned her so it would look like she was really taking a bath on her own? Also, why did he drain the tub after Ada found her but before the neighbors arrived? To disguise the temperature of the water because it was ice cold from drowning her over an hour ago? To hide the discoloration of the water? Spencer said she bled from her incisions, but it would take a LOT of blood to discolor an entire tub full of water. If she had bled out enough to discolor the bath water, there would have been very little blood left in her, and it also would have affected the lividity. What do you think?

  4. Schaeffer
    11/08/2013 at 5:37 pm

    Ritanita (or anyone else) — do you have any thoughts on my question above? This issue with Michele’s pants is bugging me, probably because I can’t figure out what the significance is.

    • ritanita
      11/08/2013 at 6:37 pm

      Schaeffer, I can only assume that the blood in the water made it look brown because it was not fresh blood. I don’t believe that she bled out from the incisions, though. It wouldn’t take much to stain the entire amount of water.

      As for the pants, I recall that Ada testified she had seen Michele fully dressed. When she ran for help and the neighbor lady came, the pants were gone and Michele was wearing a black top. Then, she went to call her husband (probably leaving the bedroom) and MM removed the black top, leaving the bra and garment which was reported by the others.

      The report of pink sweatpants… someone had managed to find a pink towel to cover her with for modesty.

      I’ve always thought, from the beginning of the trial that Martin was trying to fix a major mistake he made in putting her in the tub fully clothed. He just didn’t have time to do it.

  5. Lisa M
    11/08/2013 at 6:10 pm

    This is something that’s bothered me since this trial started. If Alexis was as concerned about her mother as she claims why did she leave? I understand she had a life she had to get back to, but she claims both she and her mother were alarmed about Martin overmedicating her mother. He had seriously overmedicated her, and supposedly Michele said he keeps feeding me meds and also “if anything happens, your father did it.” Why would she leave her mother in that state? She had been keeping a detailed record of the meds Michele was taking, supposedly mistrusted her father, her mother’s out of it, can’t protect herself against him, and she leaves?

    • ritanita
      11/08/2013 at 6:39 pm

      When Alexis left, it was on her father’s orders that she return to school. Let’s not forget, Martin ruled the roost there and none dare defy him. She testified that she would not have left if she had thought that her father had intentionally tried to overmedicate (murder imho) her mother the first night home.

      • Lisa M
        11/08/2013 at 7:13 pm

        Thanks Ritanita for clarifying. I hadn’t heard her testimony about that. I wasn’t trying to blame her but just trying to figure it out. I’m worried that without all the stuff that didn’t come in the jury is going to acquit. I believe he’s guilty but I don’t have a good feeling about this one.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/08/2013 at 7:27 pm

      Also, she said that when she left to go back to school her mother was fine and up and about, driving, doing housework, and was upbeat. She no sooner left and the next day she’s overmedicated and dead in the bathtub. He waited for the first opportunity to be alone with her to do the deed and make sure he was successful without interruption.

    • cathyn518
      11/09/2013 at 8:58 am

      Lisa,
      I have a daughter who also went through med school. She was told that no absences were allowed and that time off was not allotted even for Doctor’s appointments- Oh the irony!
      With Martin pushing Alexis out the door plus I would expect her Mom not wanting her to get behind in school, she left. At some level, she could not expect her father to truly be this evil.Thank god the jury saw how evil he really was.

  6. Schaeffer
    11/08/2013 at 6:49 pm

    Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery pens an Ope-Ed smack down of Nurmi’s buddy, Michael Kiefer, and his blatant pro-defense/anti-Juan-and-prosecutors-in-general bias.

    http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/articles/20131106prosecutors-improved-training-oversight-ignored.html

    • donchais
      11/08/2013 at 7:40 pm

      good article, thx

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/08/2013 at 7:41 pm

      Thanks for sharing! We’ve always looked at that Kiefer as a bag of hot air!! He was probably all goo gaga over that murderer Ariass!! As we say in our generation….”There’s no bigger fool than an OLD fool!”….and he wears it well!!

  7. donchais
    11/08/2013 at 7:04 pm

    ritanita and I have always thought Michele was drown fully clothed. MacNeill suddenly realized in panic that didn’t look right and began to undress Michele so it looked like she was preparing a bath, but ran out of time to stage the full scene, hence the missing pants.

    Things were happening so quickly and your mind can’t accept your supposed beloved father was really murdering your mom, you went on with ‘normal’ life. Alexis was functioning solely on conditioning.

    It wasn’t till time settled in and she began to put two and two together the horrendous began to dawn on her that her father was such a monster…mho.

    • Lisa M
      11/08/2013 at 7:16 pm

      I agree that she probably couldn’t really believe at that time that her father would be capable of murder and hindsight is 20/20. I’m sure she has terrible regrets. She and her siblings have been so traumatized by this sociopath. I really hope he doesn’t get away with this.

    • Schaeffer
      11/08/2013 at 7:16 pm

      Thank you,Donchais and ritanita. I agree with you both, he was trying to stage the scene, especially after he realized his mistake of drowning her fully clothed. I could follow the logic about how each person got part but not all of the clothing description right — white top, black top, fuzzy pink sweatpants (which was really a towel) — but the issue with the missingi pants was driving me nuts.

  8. donchais
    11/08/2013 at 7:52 pm

    Schaeffer, put 2 peeps in a room and show them the same film clip…question them afterwards and see what each saw…some same but big differences…human nature!

  9. donchais
    11/08/2013 at 8:32 pm

    Jury still deliberating

    • 11/08/2013 at 9:58 pm

      Thank you Donchais and Ritanita for your clarification on the clothing. I sometimes overlook the logical.

  10. 11/08/2013 at 11:19 pm

    How long did the jury deliberate for and will they be back at it tomorrow?

  11. nyccowgirl
    11/08/2013 at 11:22 pm

    Schaeffer :
    Ritanita (or anyone else) — do you have any thoughts on my question above? This issue with Michele’s pants is bugging me, probably because I can’t figure out what the significance is.

    I’m speculating that she expelled feces and a bit of blood when she died, which my understanding is what can happen during death. This probably explains the reddish brown water. She was medicated and I thought Alexis had said one of the medicine was to help or contributed to bowel movements. That may have been a reason the feces may have been on the less than solid kind. I thought the pants and undergarments were never found, which would seem odd whether he took them off or she was preparing for a bath. If so, I also think he totally got rid of it and drained the water for the same reason – getting rid of evidence that may link to time of death or evidence of accumulated medication that ran through her system (even unprocessed pills perhaps or if he did it gradually throughout the morning). He probably did not plan this and realized it when he sent Ada to get help so rushed to clean up as much as he could.

  12. nyccowgirl
    11/08/2013 at 11:34 pm

    Anyone else think that Dipsy got an image consultant throughout this trial? I think she showed up 3 times – first time she was all boobage and gaudy, ho-ish makeup; 2nd time she covered up (probably same outfit as last appearance) and toned down her makeup and last time she was all covered up with an even more natural color in makeup.

    • donchais
      11/08/2013 at 11:38 pm

      Doubt she did it on her own, but no doubt the def team had a hand in it!

  13. donchais
    11/08/2013 at 11:47 pm

    9:40 MT pm Jury question…is it law in Utah the spouse gets the estate? Def says they asked that only in the civil suit. Judge agrees that is what he remembers. This was when the $5k gifts were given.

    This is surrounding why Alexis was appointed executor and the disposition of the family home.

    Judge rules refer jury back to law in the instructions. Less is more!

  14. donchais
    11/08/2013 at 11:56 pm

    It’s just on midnight here. >>> donchais needs some thumb sucking and blankie and pillow time

  15. nyccowgirl
    11/09/2013 at 1:32 am

    how come in wobo’s case, they cited evidence #s for every thing that they were referring to or having witnesses read but in the macneill file, i don’t hear or see any submission/citing of such, including people reading from ipads? is it not standard courtroom procedure to catalog all evidence that is used during the trial?

    • donchais
      11/09/2013 at 2:10 am

      It’s late and I’m tired…not sure what you are asking. Who is reading from iPads? Not allowed by jury.

      • nyccowgirl
        11/09/2013 at 3:05 am

        prosecutor showing last defense witness stuff from his ipad. wobo’s trial had to mark everything used in court into evidence and ttorneys would have to cite the number as they were referring to the evidence to be noted in transcripts, but i don’t see that happening in macneill trial.

  16. donchais
    11/09/2013 at 1:57 am

    Jury says last piece of evidence they need is the 911 call. Pros transferring to cd format and will have down to court in 15 minutes. This jury is serious!!!

    Why this wasn’t done earlier is beyond me, but it is in the works now!

  17. Marilyn N
    11/09/2013 at 3:00 am

    OMG – nervous now! Verdict time!

  18. nyccowgirl
    11/09/2013 at 3:11 am

    GUILTY!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!! Such a dedicated jury for plowing through. Night all!

  19. nyccowgirl
    11/09/2013 at 3:13 am

    now let’s go get Dipsy!

  20. Marilyn N
    11/09/2013 at 3:20 am

    Martin looked rather at peace. Maybe he is getting too old and tired of
    coming up with new schemes. (and nobody to go home to…….?_

    • nyccowgirl
      11/09/2013 at 3:23 am

      did you happen to see who sat on his right? he smiled (and maybe thanked) the person at the end.

  21. donchais
    11/09/2013 at 3:25 am

    Ms. Pork Chop

    • nyccowgirl
      11/09/2013 at 3:30 am

      ahhhh…thought you snuggled up to pillow. you’re as committed as the jury! thanks donchais!

  22. ritanita
    11/09/2013 at 6:56 am

    Drats! The ONE night this week I fell asleep! Off to see more on this!

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