Home > Crime > Casey Anthony – Fryed Green Tomatoes

Casey Anthony – Fryed Green Tomatoes

04/06/2011

The previous Frye hearings have been notable for several reasons. They have mostly been mind numbing on the part of the defense and they have certainly been center stage for contentiousness between the State and the defense, as well as the stretching the limit of patience of the honorable Judge Belvin Perry.  By the way, if you haven’t read it already, there is an exceptional article on the good Judge in the Orlando Magazine here, do take a peek!

Dr. Scott Fairgrieve, for the defense on cadaver dogs was easily dismissed by the prosecution when he was forced to admit his knowledge of the highly trained dogs was mostly second-hand reading.

Dr. Kenneth Furton was pulverized by the prosecution!  He was smug, arrogant, uncooperative and just plain wrong!  Most of his testimony is actually from papers his students prepared!

I admit, I find the scientific testimony – key to any case – baffling.  My go-to place for understanding is The Hinky Meter, (start here).  Valhall is amazing for breaking it down to ‘Science For Dummies’ and I love her to death for making soup out of chowder for me!

The defense ‘guns for hire’ have, so far, have been below par – ‘green’, so to say, and in my humble opinion and I firmly believe we have another notch to add to the State’s belt with Dr. Logan!

Casey dressed like she just came off the farm!

Well, seems the defense asked for a phone line but no video equipment….grrr.  Hearing postponed for at least a half hour so they can set up!

Sims gets Logan to talk about error rates and controls also positive and negative sample testing.  Remember, most of his work is in testing drugs.  He describes how they go about developing a new test procedures.

Sims asks what the American Academy of Forensic Science does – eye roll here! They don’t issue guidelines, but promote good practice.

Does the Academy recognize the field of odor identification of secondary to human decomposition?  There is no section that would recognize it as a discipline.  He’s going for there aren’t enough people working in the field.

Sims asks if Abraham Lincoln started the Academy?  Logan doesn’t know but says an act of Congress formed the Academy.

BTW, Mr. Lincoln will not be called to testify!

Judge Perry has to interrupt Sims again about what is or isn’t Frye.  Judge Perry isn’t happy and actually tossed some files to the side of the bench.

This is a real snoozer!

Sims is trying real hard to get to that old ‘junk science’ theory!

Now she gets into SWGS and the FBI.

Logan says the FBI hasn’t issued standards for odor signature decomp analysis.

Sims says Logan has done studies in odor signature analysis of decomp with pigs, Logan denies he has.  He has read Vass’ papers and others.

Judge wants to know when he read the papers?

He read Vass in 2008, but the others he just recently read in prep for this trial!

Judge Perry says that doesn’t make Logan an expert!

Sims asks if there are any studies specifically concerning children and decomp?  Logan says he couldn’t find any.  So, there is no way for Vass to say what he found is correct!

Logan says because Dr. Vass’ database of compounds is secret he would questions the result.

Logan says Vass only tested two carpet sample, but should have tested numerous carpet samples!

Logan says Vass’ tests didn’t have proper controls.

Sims going astray from Frye issues.

Judge Perry has to explain Frye again and says Sims is taking a long way to get to it!  He may set a time limit! If they don’t get to certain evidence by 5 pm today, it won’t be heard.  To be fair, the State has yet to cross…Sims has been going on for hours.

Logan prepared some chart of compounds the defense wants admitted.  Ashton objects.  Judge Perry accepts the chart – I think just to hurry this along!

Now on to fatty acids and Logan says they are in cheese, butter, milk…yada, yada, yada! Ashton objects because Logan isn’t an expert on adopicere.

Logan says there wasn’t a clear indication of how much chloroform was in the trunk.

Sims says Caylee was swimming on June 2nd and Casey put her wet bathing suit in the trunk and….

Objection!  Sustained!

Sims is just awful at this!

Ashton finally takes the podium at 11:49!

We get into targeted vs general analysis.  In Logan’s lab they would use general analysis to see what a person has been exposed to environmentally.

You never did analysis on air samples?  I did accelerates in arson samples.

His last analysis of an air samples was in grad school in the 1980’s…well over 20 years ago!

Would you agree that an expert can form an opinion from peer-reviewed articles?  Yes.

Error rates do not apply to an individual’s opinions?  Correct.

Ashton gets into the infamous Academy report.  Ahhh, Jeff Ashton is getting to labs errors and fraud!  Logan got nailed for this in the past!!!!

Logan is beginning to stutter and looks befuddled!

The Academy report does not reject new science?  No it encourages it.

Logan says he did not review peer-reviewed information on adipocere for this case.  He says he read articles over the past 25 years of his career.

Ashton says the greek paper and Dr. Vass’ are really two very different studies based on the bodies and how they were kept after death.

Without doing anything but reading papers and not doing any experiments, you really can’t testify that what is expected in a clinical or research or forensic lab is the same?  Correct.

Wow, Ashton is done and he did a good job discrediting the testimony.

Sims is back with her round about questioning.  She truly is impossible to listen to!  Even Logan isn’t following her!

I’m quite certain you could eliminate half the words from her questions and still get to the meat of the matter much faster!

Logan is released and court breaks for lunch.

Baez introduces some items into evidence.

Baez is trying sneak in some addendums of several witnesses to which Ashton wants limited.

Mason wanders up to whisper in Baez’s ear.

Next witness is Dr. David Hall, the botanist.

OMG more torture from Sims!  The Judge has limited Sims to 15 minutes!

Sims asks if he reviewed photos.  Yes.

His conclusions were based on the digital items not the actual root tips.

I’m confused…this is not Frye – he did no experimentation.

Maybe we are mixing and matching Frye and other motions?

Hall says the small roots were probably growing from 2-3 months and the larger were 3-4 or 5 months.

Photos were received from the ME of bones with roots growing through them.

Sims is disputing his findings based on whether or not the photographs had been enlarged and if he knows the scale.

This stuff is due to the last motion by the defense on this stuff!

Sims says you never saw the actual plants in the photographs.  Hall says he did see many of the plants at the scene!

Did you see the actual plants growing through the plastic bag?  No.

Poor Dr. Hall is having difficulty following what the heck Sims is asking.

Hall pretty much is refuting Sims’ line of questioning…she wants him to identify every single plant, bush, etc at the scene where Caylee’s body was recovered.  She is mixing apples and oranges again.

Dr. Hall knows his stuff!

Jeff Ashton is holding his head!

Sims finally shuts up and sits down!

Ashton has no questions, but does remark that Sims took 35 minutes, lol!

Hall’s deposition will be reviewed as part of these hearings.

Dr. Jane Bock is called.  Her CV is admitted as evidence.

She agrees that growth rates of plant roots is accepted as published information.

Says she read many abstracts or full papers about this and spent about 3 dozen hours searching for information.

Nice lady, but not adding much here!  The State really doesn’t care a ton about this, they are as bored as I am.  She really isn’t  doing much to impeach Dr. Hall.

Sims is done and Ashton doesn’t care, lol!

OMG 2:50 pm, the defense says they are done!

Court goes to recess after a huge debate on Petraco trial in NY – hair banding guy who worked for the defense but then refused to testify for them.

WTH?  Baez is now trying to discredit all Vass Frye.  We suddenly have a powerpoint presentation (ability never seen before from these clowns).  We are back to Vass should not be acceptable because the ‘sniffer machine’ will make him a ton of bucks!

Oh, he wants Vass tossed and claims evrybody has a different opinion from Vass, so Vass picked, ‘a guy from Greece’ , to agree with his study!

Mr. Snarky Baez has reappeared!  He has donned his head gear and red tights again to claim he is the science expert here!

Mr. Baez…go see what Valhall has to say!!!!!!  Ya moron!

Baez is so trying to discredit Dr. Vass and his work.  I’m seeing the hand of LKB in this because Baez ain’t at all this bright!

This is totally outrageous!

No freakin way Baez came up with this carp on his own!

Hmmm, funny, the coaching is coming from Mason’s clerk who will be sitting for the bar shortly…this is so wrong!

Ashton up and states the defense is wrong about the LIBS examination and is incorrect!

He also claims several issues brought up by the defense have nothing to do with Frye!

Nah. I ain’t capturing this gobbley-gook, but Ashton is beating the craps outta Beaz’s BS!

Ashton says the jury can agree or disagree with Dr. Vass’ findings and Dr. Vass even said so!

Ashton says the State has met the Frye burden and it’s up to the jury!

Jeff was up for all of 3 minutes, Baez wants to rebutt…kill me now!

I’m debating whether to go to sleep or start drinking or maybe I should do both!  I do feel I’m bleeding from my eyes, ears, nose and mouth!

So, Baez just told the court, nothing the State has presented has been accepted in any court in Florida!

We’ll be back Friday but, Baez says Finnell needs more time.  Perry calls for 9 am on Friday!

Worts and all, here it is!!!!

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  1. 04/06/2011 at 5:26 pm

    I had to laugh when Baez said Vass uses an assistant for the chemistry because he doesn’t know chemistry. Kinda like Baez has an assistant (Mason) because he doesn’t know the law.

  2. donchais
    04/06/2011 at 5:31 pm

    Thanks so much terri, I needed a laugh…today was beyond painful and I lost my sense of humor!

  3. Kim
    04/06/2011 at 6:33 pm

    Impressive write up!!

    Isn’t it amazing and such a relief when Ashton finally takes the podium? Clear and concise, he gets to the heart of the matter and its over.

  4. momo
    04/06/2011 at 7:02 pm

    You have not lost your sense of humor. I look forward to your blogs to ease the pain of this dufus attorney. you are awsome!! It is sometimes difficult to bear with the way the judge allows some of the dufus antics to continue but we know that he will make no mistake in his rulings. This is unreal!! Keep writing cuz im looking forward to reading your writing!!!!

  5. ritanita
    04/06/2011 at 7:03 pm

    I’m pooped! I got so angry with Baez and his trash talk about Dr. Vass. We have a half-baked lawyer with a spotty track record on this trial compared to a reknowned scientist who is hightly respected in the scientific community. It seems Baez is jealous that the good Dr. Vass will get 15% of the royalties (not the profit) from this invention… actually, it will be 15% divided by the number of inventors… and he really doesn’t know how many inventors will be part of the group!

    Also, saying that Vass doesn’t know chemistry because his degree isn’t in chemistry is such a crock! He should check out the requirements at all levels of Vass’ schools where he got his degrees. Plenty of chemistry is needed for scientists regardless of their chosen field of pursuit.

    It seems as though Baez has to belittle others to feel better about himself!

  6. merker
    04/06/2011 at 7:06 pm

    TY donchais for a great laugh:)
    Great article!

  7. 04/06/2011 at 7:09 pm

    hello to all this court case today was out of this world.we could not make out sims at all let alone others.mr.bigshot bozo marie thinks he knows science now woopee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.he only can dream that he knows a lot.he is not good as being a proper lawyer in fact he gives all lawyers a bad name.what a jack ass bozo marie is.l hope the state charges cindy marie anthony for what she is doing making up stuff after her depo.how dare she.chenney marie is too old to be at the courtroom let alone sitting for the defense.bozo should go back to laww school cause he dont know nothing of how to act let alone teach anyone being a lawyer when he dont know what he is saying .he stutters when he begins to say something.does not know how to begin nor when he wants to oject because he does not know what he is ojecting to what a fat arse.the old guy should go to the old age home maybe bozo marie can go there to serve him when he wants because he cant serve being a lawyer what else can he do.as to the horse face casey marie looks like a tramp waiting for her pimp.what about the defense strategy trying to use cindy for resonable doubt how does everyone here feel about all this.because as it standa right now unless they have their strategy they will not win this case period.can you all put down your input on this.?see you later dinner time for us.

  8. Kay
    04/06/2011 at 7:22 pm

    “So, Baez just told the court, nothing the State has presented has been accepted in any court in Florida!”

    Mr. Baez should remember that Mr. Ashton is somewhat experienced in getting science accepted FOR THE FIRST TIME in courts of Law and Florida – in fact, his little, unimportant case way back in the day had to do with getting DNA accepted in court for the first time ever in Florida – Sheesh!

  9. Kay
    04/06/2011 at 7:23 pm

    Oooops, should read …in courts of Law IN Florida…

  10. Hope4tomorrow
    04/06/2011 at 9:30 pm

    donchais I love your article!!!! Bottom line I am a bleeder as well after today!
    What I am most upset about is regarding the dragged out questioning taking most of the day, by the defense. Which by the way left me with the WTH feeling, as all they appeared to do in my opinion was twist and play words which led nowhere. None the less wonderful article, enjoyed reading it and may the force of the universe heal us all before Friday!

  11. Jose Disliker
    04/06/2011 at 10:39 pm

    Bozo is so offensive and dishonest. He WILL be disbarred after this case.

  12. donchais
    04/06/2011 at 11:02 pm

    Thanks all for stopping by!

    I really struggle with all the science, but even more so with inept attorneys who understand less than I do!

    The best thing from today? We don’t have to be back til Friday!

    What will a jury think if we all feel this way?

  13. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 7:24 am

    Hello all first time here and i reall enjoyed reading all the comments

  14. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 7:25 am

    sorry typo (its early) i meant REALLY enjoyed the comments

  15. donchais
    04/07/2011 at 7:30 am

    Hi gettingtired, welcome!

  16. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 8:06 am

    I would also like to say excellent article , i missed portions of the hearing or i just plain could not hear it, or i fell asleep during it , your article brought me back up to speed , and made me chuckle a bit also hope to join you all again tomorrow

  17. donchais
    04/07/2011 at 8:17 am

    Thanks gettingtired! I noticed this morning I still have the indents from the keys on my keyboard on my forehead. I couldn’t help it – my head kept hitting the keyboard yesterday!

  18. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 10:18 am

    Oh you are so welcome ,well you did a fantastic job keyboard indentations and all lol

  19. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 10:30 am

    May i ask a few questions and I m sure you have covered this before , but this is the first site i have come across where someone with is actually giving you that one on one 1) Do you foresee the state taking the jury to see Casey’s car? 2) What affect do you think it will have on the trial when Shirley Pleasa testifies against her granddaughter? 3) Does anyone really know why George has not been attending(although i do not blame him)$) What do you think the defense is going to say is Casey’s reason for not calling the police for 31 days? and last and final exactly which part of the prosecution will LBD be handling I love her style thank you

  20. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 10:31 am

    someone with knowledge(typo ) and its not so early anymore

  21. chattycathy
    04/07/2011 at 10:35 am

    After months of litigation and sharp criticism from the courts, State Toxicologist Barry Logan has resigned amidst allegations of perjury, ethical problems, scientific errors and carelessness.
    http://cowanlegaleducation.com/wp/?p=8

  22. donchais
    04/07/2011 at 10:50 am

    gettingtired,

    Florida is struggling with their budget so, I doubt they will load everybody up for a field trip. There are plenty of photos of the car, inside and out.

    Grandma Pleasa is on the witness list, but the State doesn’t have to call her. Her health isn’t all that good and there is other strong evidence of Casey stealing, etc…she already is a convicted felon so there really isn’t a pressing need to subject her to testifying.

    As for George, it’s anyone’s guess. The animosity between he and Casey and he and Cindy is palpable. Or, maybe he finally manned-up and is working so he can make mortgage payments!

    The defense may be going to state of mind defense to explain why Casey didn’t call…blame it on George, Cindy, and her upbringing. Whatever it is, Baez claims we’ll know after the first few minutes of opening statements.

    Linda Drane Burdick will most likely address all the non-scientific stuff. Jeff Ashton is the master at science. Linda will do exactly as she has done through all the hearings and she is brilliant at it!

    I have no crystal ball, so all of this is conjecture on my part, but this is what my gut tells me.

  23. donchais
    04/07/2011 at 10:52 am

    Thanks chattycathy…great witness for the defense, huh?

  24. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 11:19 am

    Thank you very much for your time and insight much appreciated

  25. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 11:20 am

    ChattyCathy your right he is right up there with the other defense witnesses

  26. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 11:23 am

    i was wondering if the jury might get to smell the interior of the casey’s car

  27. 04/07/2011 at 1:00 pm

    I believe they will get to see and smell the car up close. Reason being is that the distance from the courthouse to the garage where it’s kept is not that far a distance, so costs would not be that much of a factor. I think the prosecutor will most assuredly request that they be allowed to see the car first hand. Just like in the Scott Peterson trial, the jurors were taken to see the boat.

  28. LCoastMom
    04/07/2011 at 1:36 pm

    donchais – Thanks again! Sorry you’re carrying keyboard marks on your forehead ; ) What a circus!

    Finelli needs more time? HAH! There isn’t enough time left for this planet to get the DT up to speed! And YES JOSE! The trial is a month away!! He should have been thinking about this instead of posting on FaceBook! (Not that it would matter in the long run.) KC is truly getting what she paid for!

  29. donchais
    04/07/2011 at 1:58 pm

    terri, no idea! Didn’t Geragos have the boat towed to the courthouse?…just probably a faulty memory on my part, lol!

    LCoastMom, all I know is a precious, little innocent was brutally taken from this earth…she is in God’s hands now which is a far better place than she ever experienced before! We all care for this little one than her family did! How sad! I do believe little Caylee’s hands will guide this trial to the proper an just conclusion

  30. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 2:55 pm

    When cindy did she say casey WORK purse was in the car?

  31. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 6:17 pm

    when she testified

  32. 04/07/2011 at 8:06 pm

    Hi all!

    Just another little reminder to vote for Yuri Melich for the honor he so richly deserves.

    Tomorrow is the final date to vote!

    Thanks to all!

    http://www.amw.com/allstar/2011/nominee-detail.cfm?id=9324

  33. gettingtired
    04/07/2011 at 9:34 pm

    Thank you Andrea I am new to this site and was not aware of the voting , indeed Mr. Melich just got my vote

  34. 04/08/2011 at 7:22 am

    donchais, you may be correct about the boat being brought to the courthouse. That may be what the prosecutor in this case may do to keep costs down. I still think the jurors WILL see that car. It is one of the most vital parts of this case and i just can’t believe they wouldn’t want the jury to see and smell that car firsthand. I am sure that even after all this time that car still smells of death. I don’t mean to be so brutally honest about that but these are the facts of this case.

  35. 04/08/2011 at 8:23 am

    gettingtired :
    When cindy did she say casey WORK purse was in the car?

    Yea that was a hoot. I honestly believe Jose calls her to let her know what they will be discussing so she can “REMEMBER” to get her “FACTS RIGHT.” Like emptying an entire can of Fabreze and placing fabric sheets throughout the car. What a doofus. “Work purse” yea right!

  36. donchais
    04/08/2011 at 8:34 am

    shyloh, it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad! I also agree Cindy is coached by the defense.

  37. 04/08/2011 at 8:58 am

    Yes it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Well ms. queen has arrived. Hope you have another GREAT article up after today ha. Wishing you well and no headaches.

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