Home > Crime > Jodi Arias Murder Trial – Day Fifty-Four, Discussion Continues

Jodi Arias Murder Trial – Day Fifty-Four, Discussion Continues

04/26/2013

Please continue discussing your thoughts and comments here!

Thx,

donchais

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  1. 04/26/2013 at 3:38 pm

    Phew! Hope this leaves the full moon behind!

    • Chrissie A
      04/26/2013 at 3:43 pm

      LOL!

    • Jim
      04/26/2013 at 3:43 pm

      LOL! 🙂

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 3:47 pm

      Wow! What is going on??

    • MMD
      04/26/2013 at 3:50 pm

      Me too!!!! WTH was THAT all about???????????

      • 04/26/2013 at 3:52 pm

        😯 and need a cross eyed one too MMD 😛 is about all I can say

      • MMD
        04/26/2013 at 3:54 pm

        Yeah, why don’t we have one of those????????? At times we really need one!!!!!!

  2. MMD
    04/26/2013 at 3:56 pm

    Hey Chrissie, Trace and Jim *****waves***** and {{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 4:04 pm

      Hi MMD *****waving***** 😀

    • Chrissie A
      04/26/2013 at 4:09 pm

      Hi MMD, at last we are on at the same time ****waves back****** and mucho hugs!!!

  3. MMD
    04/26/2013 at 3:59 pm

    Chrissie I’ve been keeping an eye on your genius Twitter photos. I must say I’m very impressed with your picture of Trace 😀 I’m sure that she’ll want to use it as her screensaver! 😆

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 4:05 pm

      MMD ***hands on hips*** Do NOT feed Chrissie! She needs to no help! 😆

      • Chrissie A
        04/26/2013 at 4:10 pm

        Pfffffttttt you are jealous ‘cos I’m getting my WAT mug :wicked:

    • MMD
      04/26/2013 at 4:07 pm

      Congrats on your WAT mug!!! I’m sure that you’ll only use the appropriate libations in it 😉

      • MMD
        04/26/2013 at 4:09 pm

        Yeah but she is soooooooooooooo good at it! LOL She’s just moved from JM and I to you 😆 although nothing can really surpass her Wumi picture. 😀

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 4:10 pm

        LOL! I found out about that too. Chrissie is so deserving of it!

      • Chrissie A
        04/26/2013 at 4:22 pm

        Tx honey!!! I’m jazzed! Will take a pic with appropriate libation beside it :wicked:

    • 04/26/2013 at 4:07 pm

      yep it’s her trademark…. that’s Trace’s fav hangout MMD!

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 4:09 pm

        🙄 🙄

      • MMD
        04/26/2013 at 4:10 pm

        it seems so 😀

      • MMD
        04/26/2013 at 4:11 pm

        What’s wrong Trace – it’s very flattering IMO 😆

      • 04/26/2013 at 4:20 pm

        A little cheeky don’t ya reckon MMD?

    • Chrissie A
      04/26/2013 at 4:26 pm

      We need her to use it as her avatar, it’s perfect! LOL

      • 04/26/2013 at 4:35 pm

        oh fo’ sho!

  4. Tracey A
    04/26/2013 at 4:01 pm

    Hey Jim! Just saw your post #361 on previous thread. That is exactly what I was trying to convey. 4:30pm was “drop dead” time to end trial on that day not the actual date of trial to end. 🙂 And Wurmi absolutely insisted on that. His choice of words “drop dead” really stood out.

    • Jim
      04/26/2013 at 4:39 pm

      Had to be done…. 🙂

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 4:40 pm

        TY!

    • WhereIsSHE
      04/26/2013 at 9:12 pm

      Hey Tracey A-
      Please know that I meant no disrespect to you or your accounting of events.
      It is just BEYOND fathom (to someone with 20 yrs of trial experience) that a judge would even entertain a “4:30 p.m.” absolute cut-off for testimony, every day of a multi-month long trial, when you have a defendant with no known history of migraines, and who was able to function past that hour for all of her adult life (waiting tables for dinner service in too many restaurants to count; driving all night, across state lines, to pay “booty-call” visits, etc.)
      So while I did not personally hear Nurmi say it– and did not likewise hear this “migraine” explanation for it, I am shocked to hear that the judge actually entered an ORDER granting this beyond-out-of-the-ordinary request from the defense.
      I mean.. it is unheard of, particularly for the reason that trial judges try to accomodate the JURORS and witnesses, mainly, and NOT the ERSATZ illness claims of the defendant.
      Talk about an obvious stalling tactic.
      If the judge granted Jodi this sort of off-the-charts “accomodation”, I would expect that she would require a medical doctor to provide testimony, on the record, to support such an audacious request, and since I am not aware that this ever took place in this case, I just find it really surprising to believe that any such request was actually granted.
      The only time you will typically see a time-deadline sort of request made by counsel is when they are either a) “attached” for trial–as in COURT-ORDERED to “appear”, or b) when a witness has some time-related conflict such that they simply cannot attend after a certain date.

      Not saying that I doubt that Nurmi would be bold enough to make the request; just shocked that there would be a court Order GRANTING such a request.
      I mean… think of the ramifications for jurors (not to mention the TAXPAYERS) that this kind of ruling could set as precedent for cases in the pipeline!
      The DEFENDANT controls the pace of the case by simply having his/her attorney say he/she can’t be in court past 4:30p.m.–every day of the trial, no matter how long it is expected to last–????
      That is just… entirely ….. BANANAS.
      Has testimony–or any proceeding that would require the defendant’s presence–NEVER continued after 4:30p.m. during this entire case???
      I ask, because I really don’t know the answer, and even with the time change, I’m fairly sure such a court-ordered time restraint would have been the topic of intense debate within the legal community (separate from discussions about the actual crime itself).

      I would like to review the discourse between Nurmi and the judge on this topic if you have a link–or even just a date, because this is a serious legal issue.

      • Family of Law
        04/26/2013 at 10:05 pm

        Truth really can be stranger than fiction- here’s a You Tube link – http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=plpp&v=lNwd0O9ag78

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 11:38 pm

        WIS – I took no disrespect from what you said. However, on that day, I heard it loud and clear. I was glad that Jim heard it too. In this time of the trial it appears you must have someone to back you up. Thanks to NancyB for backing me up earlier on an unrelated manner.

        But it was disgusting that the Judge granted the motion and is now willing to carry on with her own schedule. I suspect JA is going to have a “migraine” right at 5:05pm or 4:35: 02 that’s just my take but when you see the vids that others will post here bringing up the Wurmi motion you will see it plain and clear.

      • Chrissie A
        04/26/2013 at 11:41 pm

        WIS – with all due respect please watch this footage, (same as FoW posted) without the mobile link and give feedback:

      • 04/27/2013 at 12:19 am

        The Court insisted that Michael Jackson be in court….he came in his pajamas….wouldn’t that be a sight for ms arias….this trial is such a mockery.

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 12:24 am

        Ha! I also posted proof but it’s in moderation! Great minds think alike!

      • Moon
        04/27/2013 at 12:50 am

        i didn’t hear her grant anything. i heard him request that the court order that the sheriff’s dept give her lunch and that his other request is to be done each day by 430. all i heard the judge say is that she believes the sheriff’s dept has agreed to feed her lunch but that she would inquire and advise next day. she didn’t address the request for 430 dismissal ubt has been obliging it. Nurmi just put it out as a motion. did the judge actually address it again the next morning?

  5. Tracey A
    04/26/2013 at 4:19 pm

    MMD :
    What’s wrong Trace – it’s very flattering IMO

    That is my butt doncha know! LOL!

  6. 04/26/2013 at 4:43 pm

    Syn, do u remember the question Wilnot asked to the M.E. prior to the question regarding the ability to hold head up with slashed throat? At the time I heard this testimony, I thought about what was she was getting at and I think it had to do with the prior question. Unfortunately, I was distracted and I have forgotten what my thoughts were regarding this line of questioning. I’m searching through hln video to locate but don’t know if this will happen in our life time…blah blah blah.
    I’m going to blame my inability to remember on the fog……lol

    • 04/26/2013 at 5:33 pm

      ya ok… listened to what Marilyn posted.. and it seems she talks about the knife position.. which I think goes to what they will say in summation…. tho if Jodistein doesnt remember the knife….. but remembers the shot.. they HAVE to find a way to convince someone that the shot could have come first or nothing the defense puts up is valid in any way at all.

      (which of course it is but I’m talking from their respective)

  7. 04/26/2013 at 4:48 pm

    There were a few questions about his head and I am racking my brain for what was immediately before it…. fog fog fog!!!! sorry it’s not coming to me right now

    • Marilyn N
      04/26/2013 at 5:05 pm

      Wilnut’s questions (with arms crossed) are here at 33:15.
      I don’t get her point……?

      • 04/26/2013 at 5:24 pm

        so does she talk about the knife angle right before she starts on the head positioning due to the neck slit?

      • TexiBelle
        04/26/2013 at 9:11 pm

        Chrissie A, you’re a bada$$ with photo and vid-can you add back in his manly scruff, replace his button down with lightly perspiring pecs, and dub his testimony with some dirty talk? I need something to get me through to Wednesday. Kthx.

  8. 04/26/2013 at 5:00 pm

    Hey all

  9. 04/26/2013 at 5:01 pm

    Any bets on how long the jury deliberates. Or do they go in one door and right out another.

    • Marilyn N
      04/26/2013 at 5:06 pm

      It makes me too nervous thinking about it. Stressful time ahead!!!

    • Jim
      04/26/2013 at 5:07 pm

      Take a minute to pick a fore person – but after that, I think it will depend on whether they do a “straw poll” right off the bat…

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 5:24 pm

      Hiya Bubble – I said long ago that I hoped the Jury would be out 15 mins and come back with 1st degree premed. That would be perfect!

      • WhereIsSHE
        04/26/2013 at 9:29 pm

        It won’t be 15 minutes (but it could be a matter of 2 hrs based on a jury verdict just handed down not far from where I practice).

        Here is the news headline:

        Harrisburg man convicted of murdering ex-girlfriend; jury next will consider death penalty
        Print By Matt Miller | mmiller@pennlive.com The Patriot-News
        on April 26, 2013 at 10:51 AM, updated April 26, 2013 at 4:31 PM Email

        A Dauphin County jury deliberated less than two hours Friday before convicting Miguel Figueroa-Novoa of first-degree murder for killing his ex-girlfriend in her Harrisburg apartment on Dec. 23, 2010.

        The jurors next will decide whether Figueroa-Novoa, 25, should receive the death penalty for the crime.

        View full sizeMiguel Figueroa-Novoa

        It is the first time in six years that a Dauphin County jury is being asked to make that call.

      • WhereIsSHE
        04/26/2013 at 9:33 pm

        Further on my last comment:
        Senior Deputy District Attorney Johnny Baer sought the first-degree murder verdict, claiming Figueroa-Novoa intended to kill both Barrios and Serrano because Barrios had broken up with him two months before the shootings.

        Motive sound familiar??

  10. Family of Law
    04/26/2013 at 5:07 pm

    Well, I’m probably gonna get ripped a “brand new one” after this post- but here it goes… 

    (Just finished reading several posts from the previous thread, and I got a bit bristled…)

    We are ALL here for the SAME reason- Justice for Travis Alexander, and all who loved him. 

    Donchais has provided a nice, big sandbox- that we are all so grateful for, because I for one, would have lost my mind if I had to go through this trial without having all of you to learn from, and to vent with.

    As the trial is nearing an end, the tensions appears to be building.

    We have all invested a great deal of time and emotion into this trial, faithfully watching, reading and googling (and yes, I think even “a five year old” can do a search).

    I fear that the BITE and SNARK of late, is getting in the way of being able to express freely.

    I offended someone here inadvertently – due to my own fears. (call it PTSD from the CA trial)  It was done without an ounce of malice, it was a knee jerk reaction, rooted in fear of the trolls that sneak into this space and feed the pond scum DT. I regretted my post immediately. Sincere, mea culpa. 

    We ALL have strong opinions re: Timeline, “road trip”, motive, evidence, the psychopathy, witnesses, attorneys, etc.  We can all try to surmise WTF happened that horrific afternoon of June 4th, but I doubt we will ever KNOW every detail of the truth, as frustrating as that is.  What we all know, and can agree on, is that JA is a sick, twisted, cold hearted, PREMEDITATING murderous bitch!  Pass me the needle, please.

    Hopefully within a couple of weeks, we are all here celebrating Justice for Travis.  I for one, plan to have a bottomless pitcher of Lemon Drops (sugar on the rim of my glass)- I will raise my glass to Travis, his family and friends, and to all of you.

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 5:51 pm

      Yum! Lemon Drops….Cheers! 🙂

    • 04/26/2013 at 5:59 pm

      Hear, Hear FOL! Cheers!

    • TexiBelle
      04/26/2013 at 7:13 pm

      I’m going to celebrate with some Juan Martinis!

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 7:56 pm

        LOL! Juan Martinis…or Juan’s Margaritas! hehehe

    • TexiBelle
      04/26/2013 at 7:15 pm

      And I saw your reply from the last page but comments were closed. I’ve bookmarked the horse rescue page for future reference. My neighbor in MI is thinking about building a barn, and I’m constantly nagging her to do it so I can have a little horsey friend across the street. Thanks for the referral!

      • Family of Law
        04/26/2013 at 10:16 pm

        TexiBelle – I hope you fulfill that dream in MI, and it would be wonderful if you gave “the unwanted”, the feeling of being loved- I looked at their rescue site, it seems as great as my brother said. And I say YES to margaritas, when ever I’m asked:)

    • WhereIsSHE
      04/26/2013 at 9:53 pm

      FofL-
      I missed the discourse you are refering to, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that none of us will ever know every precise detail as to what Jodi did on June 4th, 2008 (or even the precise details of what she did in every minute of every hour leading up to the murder and/or in every minute of every hour following the murder).
      I also know that no matter how much anger you have toward Jodi Arias, you are not the kind of person who could intentionally kill another who was not actually threatening you –or someone within your range of protection–with deadly harm.
      It’s understandable to say you would happily do it; it is another to actually carry out the execution Order.

      I don’t know you other than your thoughtful posts here, obviously, but it appears to me that you have a very kind, loving, compassionate spirit.
      May you always keep it so, because it is a beautiful and admirable spirit, indeed.

      • Family of Law
        04/26/2013 at 10:34 pm

        My post was a “courtesy flush” of sorts- one individual continued for a couple of days to make jabs at a few posters. Plus, I blurted something the other day that I regretted and I felt it required a further apology. Anywho… Thank you so very much WIS, those are such kind words! My “pass me the needle” was perhaps going too far- But I do have wicked feelings towards JA, she is truly evil, and I hope she knows soon, that she’s not “winning” (that smirk is intolerable). Hopefully when this trial is over, all will be just.

        Thank you again:) (((hugs)))

  11. Gracerv7
    04/26/2013 at 5:36 pm

    Maybe to relieve the tension we should all play a drinking game! I got one: let’s put on the unedited interrogation video of arias and Dective Flores and every time jodi says, “I didn’t do it,” “I wasn’t there,” “I didn’t kill Travis,” or any similar response we have to take a drink. I guarantee we’ll be blitzed by the end of the first video!!

    • 04/26/2013 at 5:44 pm

      what tension? I ain’t got no tension… **bottoms up** 😀

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 5:46 pm

        Jinx!!! 😆

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 5:45 pm

      LOL Grace! Cheers ****bottoms up**** 😀

    • Chrissie A
      04/26/2013 at 5:47 pm

      I’m in Grace 😛 ~Cheers honey~

    • TexiBelle
      04/26/2013 at 8:33 pm

      Or a drinking game where we do a shot every time ALV said “context” or Dr. Dick said “fog.” Of course, we’d all be in the hospital with alcohol poisoning.

      • Douglme
        04/26/2013 at 10:35 pm

        Or pattern!

    • Kathy A.
      04/27/2013 at 2:13 am

      Personally, I’m on a quest to see how many times I can use “edify” or “de-edify” in a normal conversation without the other person looking at me with disgust…no luck so far.Was going to have a shot of tequila every time I was successful, but I believe I’ll be more bang for my buck and a better buzz if I drink every time I’m not successful.

  12. 04/26/2013 at 5:45 pm

    Hi Observer,

    I must deeply apologize to you if I offended you. I would never intentionally insult ones religion. I was just asking Syn the question from Jodis twisted mind and from Jodis interpretation of the book of mormon. Again truly sorry if I have upset you or insulted you in any way, this was not my intention. It was just a thought that I was mulling over thinking from Jodis twisted mind..

    • 04/26/2013 at 5:48 pm

      ya we had been talking about that over a number of days. It’s ok CI I don’t think Observer realised exactly what we had been talking bout! it’s all good. 😀

      • 04/26/2013 at 7:41 pm

        Thank you Syn.

  13. Gracerv7
    04/26/2013 at 5:47 pm

    I think I’ll actually wait till a bit later but I will thinking of you all when I take my first sip 😉

    • 04/26/2013 at 5:48 pm

      pffft it was your idea and now you are piking out????

  14. NancyB
    04/26/2013 at 6:01 pm

    WIS – Important question for you: Since Dr Horn did not offer any *new* testimony yesterday compared to his testimony on Jan 10th does that mean that the defense will not be allowed to have their own (if they can find Dr Wener Spitz or someone of that ilk) ME to refute Dr Horn’s testimony in their sur-rebuttal?

    • 04/26/2013 at 6:11 pm

      I thought there is only one witness and thats the “psychologist” there’s more????

      • Jill
        04/26/2013 at 6:22 pm

        I hope not. Does my one know?

      • Jill
        04/26/2013 at 6:23 pm

        Oops, I meant…does anyone know?

    • WhereIsSHE
      04/27/2013 at 6:02 pm

      NancyB-
      Correct (assuming the defense does not ARGUE that he offered “new” evidence that they would be entitled to rebut–AND the court were to agree).
      I didn’t watch Dr. Horn’s entire rebuttal testimony, but my understanding is that Juan simply had him answer questions to refute Jodi’s killing-sequence-claims, and that he only referred to evidence previously admitted during the state’s case-in-chief.
      Therefore, I would say the defense will not have any opportunity to “rebut” his rebuttal testimony.
      (If the defense could have found ANYONE to refute his original testimony, we would have heard it during their case. Says a LOT, doesn’t it.)

  15. Gracerv7
    04/26/2013 at 6:11 pm

    Noooo! Never just postponing for an hour or so! Hey I have a question if anyone knows…regarding phone sex tape I thought jodi said on the stand that Travis knew he was being taped, they did it to listen and enjoy together blah blah probably more lies. Anyways I thought I read on here though that she did admit on the stand that he had no idea he was being taped. Which I think really goes to proving the tapes were blackmail and not to be “enjoyed” at a later date.

    • 04/26/2013 at 6:14 pm

      Far as I know she said on the stand he knew. But the evidence shows he didn’t. That’s what I know of it anyhow.

      I dont think it was blackmail as such.. I think it was to ruin his reputation with third parties. NO point her blackmailing with something that isn’t going to get her what she wants. That makes no sense to me.

      • Gracerv7
        04/26/2013 at 6:19 pm

        Maybe threatened him was better word. I felt she told him what she had taped and threatened to expose the tape to his church, new love interest etc. I feel thats part of angry email from him. Her telling him about it and him finally saying I don’t care what you have on me, I’m done.

      • 04/26/2013 at 6:24 pm

        I don’t think she would have told him…. because what would she gain from it? Her biggest thing was to keep him with her.. telling him she had that recording and threatening him with it would have driven him away not kept him with her!

      • Jill
        04/26/2013 at 6:27 pm

        I think it did drive him away. I think when he found out a bout them, that is when those angry messages began from him.

      • 04/26/2013 at 6:33 pm

        maybe… I tend to think that was about everything catalyst being that half email he sent me. I just don’t see what she would gain by telling him she was going to blackmail him with that recording.

      • Gracerv7
        04/26/2013 at 6:31 pm

        We all see it that way and your point s valid. However I initially saw it as a way for her to control him, because that’s how I see her mind working. Not saying your wrong, but she doesn’t look at situations the way a rational normal person would so that idea was tumbling through my head.

      • Jim
        04/26/2013 at 6:39 pm

        Syn is this blog’s version a Janeen DeMarte – Her insight is spot on…

    • Moon
      04/26/2013 at 7:37 pm

      i can go with this… but i think it’s because he told her he had someone else to take to Cancun and actually loved this girl and thought she was the one. I can just hear her tell him well i dont think she will marry you once she hears this tape… i think she showed up to try and convince him to take her and all would be good between the 2 OR she told him she was sorry she “over reacted” and promised to take him the tape for destruction.

      this is one of the reasons i asked… how many calls/emails/texts BETWEEN May 26th through JUNE 3. We know there are 14 on JUNE 4… i’m just curious to how many between 5/26 and 6/3… i think that would be telling.

      also, the ho said had 2 cds with pics that were scratched and TA was mad about that too.. riiight… but, what happened to those cds? were they ever found?

      what a NIGHTMARE she is!

      • WhereIsSHE
        04/27/2013 at 8:05 pm

        AND.. if you follow Jodi’s version of events…
        WHY on EARTH would she have packed/had CDs of photos of herself & Travis– in a RENTAL CAR, no less– when she claims she had NO INTENTION of traveling to Mesa, AZ to see TRAVIS when she departed from her home town???!

        It just proves that her entire story on the stand was yet another COMPLETE FICTION.

        Cast me in the voting pool of those who believe it is LIKELY that that she used that recorded sex phone conversation to attempt to blackmail Travis between that phone call and the series of angry text messages he sent her 2 days before she stole the gun.

        IF Travis knew she was coming to his place on June3rd-June 4th, I can imagine he believed she was going to give him the tape, and that would be the ONLY reason I can imagine he would let her back in.
        She had to have something he wanted enough to continue to even just TALK with her on the phone.
        We know he did make phone calls TO her in early June (when she was–unbeknowst to Travis–on her way to butcher him.

        That is just one verson of how it MIGHT have played out.

      • 04/28/2013 at 3:09 am

        I think he was done with all that tho. 26th May he called her out as a sociopath. I think from that convesation alone she realised all her demonic plans were not going to work which is why she decided to kill him.

        Whatever reason she had for those blackmail tapes become null and void with his attitude towards her 26 may and then even more so early June.

        I think then it just sat there until she hit on the idea she could use it in her defense.

  16. Schaeffer
    04/26/2013 at 6:13 pm

    Chrissie –are you here?

    • Chrissie A
      04/26/2013 at 6:15 pm

      No 😛

      • 04/26/2013 at 6:21 pm

        😆 Chrissie!!! very funny :rolls:

      • Schaeffer
        04/26/2013 at 6:37 pm

        Chrissie — I’ve been trying to catch up with you “live” for several days. I wanted to both thank and compliment you for comments you made to an individual who was consistently inappropriate and WAY WAY WAY off topic; I was about to address the issue myself, but you did it first, and in the process were much more tactful than I fear I would have been. Donchais also refocused everyone shortly thereafter, again, tactfully. There is an individual here who has appointed themself my personal pain in the ass, but for now, I am just skipping over their comments and chalking it up to . . . well, I guess I shall take a turn being tactful myself, and leave it at that.

        grazie

      • Chrissie A
        04/27/2013 at 12:03 am

        Tx 🙂 I was equally insulted, but I was also trying to keep the positive flow of the room going being reason we are her for which is Justice for Travis ~hugs~

  17. Moon
    04/26/2013 at 6:20 pm

    hellooo ev1…

    ok syn you said full moon….i’m not a full moon (or a fool moon) lol ok well maybe….
    just moonluck here! **cheesy smile**

    • 04/26/2013 at 6:22 pm

      no dahhhhling.. you re moonshine!! 😀

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 6:23 pm

      Moon! Hey Girl! LMAO!!! 😆

    • Chrissie A
      04/26/2013 at 6:32 pm

      Hi Moon honey ~waves~

  18. 04/26/2013 at 6:32 pm

    Marilyn N :
    Wilnut’s questions (with arms crossed) are here at 33:15.
    I don’t get her point……?

    Thanks for posting this Marilyn! U have spared me grief of having to go thru HLN and find it.

  19. Moon
    04/26/2013 at 6:35 pm

    going back to prior days, was there and opened a bunch of items in new tabs for later reading … crazy pc jammed up so i lost all of them. will have to dive in again.

    that ? that whinywillnot asked about TA apparently holding his head and shoulder up… that ? came straight from the ho. she made sure whiny saw it b4 whiny went up to requestion the doc. As far as I am concerned that does not bode well at all for the duhfense, just more proof they don’t have a clue. he clearly WAS NOT A THREAT at that point… even if his throat was not slashed at that point, so I don’t see how whiny can try to spin that her way in closing arguments?

    I did post the comment about them dating 5 mo (150 days) and that Travis spent the next 450 days trying to rid himself of her. I cannot even begin to imagine his pain and torment and all that the evil ho put him through.

    • 04/26/2013 at 7:08 pm

      The thing is.. if that holding head up refers to the photo? My g-d seriously… that’s right when she is slitting his throat.. it could very well be Jodistein holding his head up.. that is mindblowing in it’s audacity if she is using THAT to say he was holding up his head then.

      • Moon
        04/26/2013 at 8:06 pm

        well since the ho herself stunned Juan with her answer to that… “I am not sure his throat is cut there” or words to that effect….then very likely that is right as she gonna do it. once again a GOD photosnap!! and, there the idiot goes again!!! jeeez ho, if you are in your FOG how could you possibly say you aren’t sure his throat is sliced?

        The ho obviously never learned “If ya tell the truth, you don’t have to remember what you said”!!

      • 04/26/2013 at 8:11 pm

        Moon take a look at that pic…. look at the blood pattern and he is in the spot where all the blood was and they conjectured his throat was slit there. It looks like it has just happened or is happening.. it’s bizarre that shot is taken there because I can’t get my head around how come the camera was there. Still not have an answer for that.

      • Moon
        04/26/2013 at 8:24 pm

        karma took a bite…

        karma keeps on biting

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 9:56 am

      Sorry Moon that I didn’t give you the credit for the comment but I even had the figures wrong. 😦 All I know is that your comment really struck home with me and it’s all I could think of. We will never know or be able to imagine what Travis truly endured with this psychopath!!!!

  20. Chrissie A
    04/26/2013 at 6:37 pm

    From the Twit:

    • Moon
      04/26/2013 at 6:45 pm

      He IS the ONLY Juan we need!! he is the ONLY Juan we want!! love you Juan!!

  21. Moon
    04/26/2013 at 6:38 pm

    *****waving****

    i am already having withdrawals. Too bad this so called Latoileete saviour can’t be bothered till Wed.

    we are sooo close! GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY can you imagine the size of the needle if we all got to push it a bit! (still think she deserves more than that, tho!)

    • 04/26/2013 at 6:45 pm

      I’d rather it be a very slow drip of HF ok shouldn’t say that but saying it anyhow.

      • Moon
        04/26/2013 at 7:20 pm

        ok i am having another dense momento… HF???

      • 04/26/2013 at 7:21 pm

        terrible acid that one drop on your skin can eat you from the inside out and you can’t stop it… takes a while to die agonisingly

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 7:37 pm

        Are you watching too many “Alien” movies???? 🙂

      • 04/26/2013 at 7:39 pm

        scientist sweety 😀

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 7:42 pm

        🙄

      • 04/26/2013 at 7:43 pm

        don’t freakin 🙄 me girlie!!!!!

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 7:52 pm

        Whatev… 😆 🙄

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 7:53 pm

      Biggest square needle I can find! I’ll volunteer a drill bit for her!

  22. Moon
    04/26/2013 at 6:43 pm

    heyy chrissie! what is the WAT award?? what’d i miss??

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 6:48 pm

      Moon! WildAboutTrial. Chrissie won their coveted coffee mug. She can explain further how so won it. So cool! ***happy clap****

      • Moon
        04/26/2013 at 7:23 pm

        ahhh applause applause Chrissie!! wtg woman!!! …. can’t wait to hear!

      • NancyB
        04/26/2013 at 7:24 pm

        Me too!!!

  23. NancyB
    04/26/2013 at 6:50 pm

    JA’s website is the most sickening display of greed. I just want it to stop! I would love the taxpayers who are footing the bill for her trial to know she has 100 Limited Edition pieces “coming soon”! Apparently her art is selling well. This has gone well beyond her helping her family with travel expenses. This just pisses me off!

    It’s no secret that she has practically incorporated during her incarceration and trial. Please sign this petition at Change.org to urge WordPress to stop these sales:

    https://www.change.org/petitions/http-ma-tt-and-http-wordpress-org-stop-the-sale-of-art-by-jodi-arias#share

    • Jill
      04/26/2013 at 7:18 pm

      Ty nancy….just signed it…

    • Gwen
      04/26/2013 at 7:28 pm

      Thank you, just signed and forwarded

      • Jill
        04/26/2013 at 7:46 pm

        Hi Gwen…haven’t seen u before..nice to meet u. 🙂

  24. 04/26/2013 at 7:12 pm

    hopefully she is convicted quick and the state can then move swiftly to break up the rackateering ring those brazen criminals are engaged in…”Limited pieces…” Yeah, real limited…days now.

  25. MJ
    04/26/2013 at 7:13 pm

    Wondering why Travis’ room mates didn’t smell the awful decomp odor and check to see what it was before so much time had passed.

  26. 04/26/2013 at 7:16 pm

    For those that r interested, A&E has a new series entitled “The Killer Speaks”. I think it is really pretty good and it is available online. It gives u some insight from their own words. One case was a male version of WOBO.

  27. 04/26/2013 at 7:17 pm

    Jim :
    Syn is this blog’s version a Janeen DeMarte – Her insight is spot on…

    hahaha… yeah …. so what I was trying to say was I think she was going to use it to get rid of girlfriends etc.. to keep Travis for herself.. a la the same thinking as the slashing of tyres… she had been very successful in breaking up all the relationships he tried to establish. I think that is in line with what she had in mind with the sex recording rather than a direct blackmailing scheme with Travis directly. That would simply not get her what she wanted most – which was his attention.

    • NancyB
      04/26/2013 at 7:23 pm

      Love this comment from Jim – so true! Above comment Syn is spot on.

  28. 04/26/2013 at 7:19 pm

    In ref; LEMON DROP DRINKS!!
    Had a chat with my local liquor store lady, as I was checking out all of the different vodkas she says,”Grey Goose is NOT the best vodka and I should try one called,”Spirit Bear” and it’s apparently made locally and supposed to be great! Do c if it is sold in your region of the world as it’s wonderful, we just gave it a try today at our neighborhood lounge this afternoon.
    Have a lovely day folks, we’ll be ready to celebrate very soon now…. Get the fresh lemons stocked up!!
    Hey Syntara: It did sound weird didn’t it? “Just Curious”.

  29. Moon
    04/26/2013 at 7:24 pm

    Syntara :terrible acid that one drop on your skin can eat you from the inside out and you can’t stop it… takes a while to die agonisingly

    ooo wow! yep that works for me!! much more aligned with what she needs….

  30. 04/26/2013 at 7:27 pm

    @Syn, I agree. I also think the audio was part of a blackmail scheme to present to The Bishop…

    • 04/26/2013 at 7:30 pm

      yes that could well be too.. something to a third party.

      • 04/26/2013 at 7:33 pm

        Like a “mysterious” dear john letter.,..Repent now whoremonger, etc

      • 04/26/2013 at 7:38 pm

        yep yep.. spot on bubble.. wow you are on fire at the moment! 😀

  31. 04/26/2013 at 7:28 pm

    After she’s dead, I wanna say, “Can I see those photos…morbid curiosity I guess…”

    • 04/26/2013 at 7:31 pm

      LMAO oooooooooo soooooo good bubble!!!

    • kristin
      04/26/2013 at 10:21 pm

      Lol! Can I please smack your bubble butt one time?! Please!

  32. 04/26/2013 at 7:35 pm

    Defense “expert” just said on JVM Jodi suffered from Stockholm syndrome

    • 04/26/2013 at 7:37 pm

      hhahahaha everyone around Jodi suffers a form of stockholm syndrome… everyone BUT Jodi!

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 7:40 pm

        True dat! I’m suffering Stockholm syndrome throughout this trial.

    • Moon
      04/26/2013 at 7:59 pm

      hhahahahha stockholm syndrome!!! what an aha momment for the ‘expert’ eh!

  33. 04/26/2013 at 7:42 pm

    Jodi: “Well as you know, the Stock Home Syndradome is on Green Witch savings time/”

    • 04/26/2013 at 7:46 pm

      LOLOL!! oh stop it Bubble you are tooo damn funny tonight! 😆

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 7:50 pm

      LMAO!!! Green Witch!!!! :mrgreen:

      • Tracey A
        04/26/2013 at 8:01 pm

        And yes Syn…I get the Greenwich Mean Time reference.! Just sayin’….

      • 04/26/2013 at 8:06 pm

        smh!!! 🙄

    • Moon
      04/26/2013 at 8:00 pm

      roflmao!!!

  34. 04/26/2013 at 7:52 pm

    Just saw something I hadn’t seen yet…JM shouting at a sleazy looking bald dude that looks like Doc Samuels on the stand, I recall hearing some buzz, but came to the trial late…some friend of Jodi’s? What’s the skinny there, should I look it up? Worth it?

    Jodi’s new art, “Blissful Ignorance” Really? Foggy Loosebottom?

    • 04/26/2013 at 7:54 pm

      you talking about Gus Searcy?

      and wtf seriously… are you saying her new art is called “blissful ignorance”??????

      • 04/26/2013 at 8:20 pm

        ok you’re playing games.. I was thinking it was possible!

      • Marilyn N
        04/26/2013 at 9:05 pm

        she is serious……

  35. 04/26/2013 at 8:01 pm

    yeah, Gus Searcy…what’s the story there?

    apparently Jodi’s back on Twitter, hawking her wares, and that is a true title. About to watch Nazi Grace, maybe more intel…

    • 04/26/2013 at 8:23 pm

      omg you dont know about Gus searcy???? oh yu have to catch up on that! He was the PPL guy who is totally enamored with Jodistein.. I think he may have even perjured himself on the stand and he looks soo much like Dr Dodgy it’s uncanny!!!

  36. Schaeffer
    04/26/2013 at 8:02 pm

    Observer — for LDS members who elect to wear religious undergarments, do they usually wear them to sleep in? What is the church’s position on keeping religious garments covered, either under pajamas or all the time? In some families, it is acceptable to be seen in one’s undies or in various states of undress around the house; does the church have something to say about this, or is it up to each family to decide what is right for them?

  37. 04/26/2013 at 8:10 pm

    @Schaeffer, I’ve usually heard of them referred to as Majic Underwear, and from what I glean from interviews with those of the faith, they can be slept in

    • 04/26/2013 at 8:24 pm

      bubble are you being serious??? cos if you are I have more questions.. if you aren’t just send me an eyeroll! 😉

      • 04/26/2013 at 8:32 pm

        Syn, I’m being serious, but I’m no expert. Ask away and I’ll try and answer. I know some…And anyone with more knowledge feel free to jump in.

      • 04/26/2013 at 8:47 pm

        CI was asking would it have been possible for Jodistein to have worn the undergarment.. do you have any idea what the undergarment consists of or by any chance have a link?

  38. SeniorMoments
    04/26/2013 at 8:27 pm

    Sorry, Everyone! Still a newcomer here! How is it that we can reply to a specific post? I notice that those are indented and it makes for a lot better continuity to have responses right with the original comments/questions.

    Also, thinking about JM’s questuion about holding up his (TA) head after his near decapitation. I think she’s trying to build an argument that he could not have been shot in the head last if he couldn’t hold up his head. Just trying to figure out that question.

    • 04/26/2013 at 8:43 pm

      SM there is reply or quote… reply appears until you are trying to reply to a 3rd tier post then you only get a quote which will start a new tier at the bottom of all the posts.. if you go up a tier and hit reply it will slot in under the one only showing quote.

      • SeniorMoments
        04/26/2013 at 10:04 pm

        Thank you so much, Syntara! Very helpful!

    • Moon
      04/26/2013 at 8:50 pm

      well sorry but I am not following this. you say… that he could not have been shot in the head last if he couldn’t hold up his head……. right! so because he appears to be holding his head up that means the shot hasn’t happened yet, and she is in process or just about to slice his throat! (other stab wounds… including to the back and head had already happened)

      • SeniorMoments
        04/26/2013 at 9:20 pm

        Actually, I’m not putting forth this explanation…..just trying to figure out where the DT might be going. Perhaps they are saying that his head is NOT upright in that photo with her foot in it, therefore he’s already been shot (the photo is open to some degree of interpretation because of the darkness and the angle, I think, and his head/face is not visible) so they might be trying to use it to support JA’s story. Of course it’s a stretch like all of the arguments used to support a known liar and admitted killer, but it’s interesting to try to figure out their strategy.

  39. Anniefreeze
    04/26/2013 at 8:27 pm

    I don’t comment much because everyone communicates my points for me.😳 Thank you donchais and justice for travis sandbox for the hours of late night entertainment.

    Bubble, Regarding Gus, I thought he was the most strange defense witness, until dr dodgy came along, then even worse was toilette. So if you want a good laugh, go back and watch Gus sleazy.

    • WhereIsSHE
      04/27/2013 at 8:53 pm

      Annie-
      I think Gus is the worst of all three of those you mention, and by far.
      Why?
      Because he KNEW Travis.. AND, so, unlike the other two, who were mere “hired guns”, PAID to assist the defense case, Gus Searcy has no such excuse for willful “ignorance”.

      And despite the fact that her personally knew Travis… the jerk helped Jodi in her attempt to “trash” Travis during this nationally/internationally televised trial, and it is clear he didn’t even really do it for HER, but rather to PROMOTE HIMSELF.

      His testimony was akin to a low-budget, late night, infomercial marketing scam.

      He is the walking/talking definition of SCUM, IMO.

  40. 04/26/2013 at 8:33 pm

    @SeniorMoment, upper right hand corner in the bubble should say reply/quote

    • SeniorMoments
      04/26/2013 at 8:35 pm

      Thanks, Bubble! I see it now! Duh!

  41. 04/26/2013 at 8:49 pm

    Alyce LaViolette said,”If Jodi was a good liar she would have made up a good lie”.
    Has everyone on this site signed the petition to end Alyce ever testifying again and
    hopefully not counselling any abuse victims,male or female in the future? I wonder if the defense could even find old Alyce if she’s needed to testify? Not likely, she’s hiding on some forsaken island on the west coast or so I’ve heard .LOL LOL Good place for her too!!

  42. Anniefreeze
    04/26/2013 at 8:49 pm

    NancyB :
    JA’s website is the most sickening display of greed. I just want it to stop! I would love the taxpayers who are footing the bill for her trial to know she has 100 Limited Edition pieces
    “coming soon”! Apparently her art is selling well. This has gone well beyond her helping her family with travel expenses. This just pisses me off!
    It’s no secret that she has practically incorporated during her incarceration and trial. Please sign this petition at Change.org to urge WordPress to stop these sales:
    https://www.change.org/petitions/http-ma-tt-and-http-wordpress-org-stop-the-sale-of-art-by-jodi-arias#share

    Just think, if jodi applied herself instead of trying to find an easy leach lifestyle, she may have been able to provide for her self. Wow, I’m speechless how many people are so gullible to be used by jodi. Putting that website together takes some effort…..she is a diabolical user form behind bars, remarkable.

    • kCruz123
      04/27/2013 at 3:31 am

      Hi Nancy. I agree with you and am disgusted that JA has the audacity to be peddling these grade-school art attempts. It sickens me also that there are people out there who pay for them. I think that in addition to gathering together to petition that she not allowed to sell this stuff ( I’m afraid it may not be possible to stop it since she is putting them out in the market via her friends), so I think that a call or letter to the IRS to alert them of this income, may at least insure that someone will have to pay taxes on any income for all items sold on her behalf.
      I’ve heard that the PayPal account is under the name of a family friend from Yreka. I forget her name at the moment but am making a note to myself to look it up. If anyone knows of any other names associated with selling this, could you please let me know.
      I know that her ‘art’ is displayed thru that JA site and I have seen some drawings of the Alexander family posted on one of JA’s MySpace accounts (she has 2, that I know of).
      Also, I have heard that JA has quite a few followers, I would hope that everyone who supports Justice for Travis does not fall victim to curiosity and sign up to follow her. She wants attention and those that ‘follow’ her onTwitter are just feeding into that.

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 3:56 am

        Technically she can not be stopped from selling them yet – But I looked it up and Arizona has the Son of Sam law – which means she cannot make money off her crime once she is convicted. The only reason her art is selling is because of this trial. Contacting the IRS or The State of Arizona and letting them know she is making money and therefore is not without means to help pay for her own defense. I wonder if she had to pay for this whole defense team and so called experts if she would have allowed it to go as long as it has.

    • NancyB
      04/27/2013 at 3:38 pm

      Anniefeeze – I always enjoy your comments!

  43. 04/26/2013 at 8:53 pm

    Arias now trying to peddle tell all book so she’ll have cash on hand when she gets acquitted; travis wanted to recreate the psycho shower scene, and she had a miscarriage with travis’ baby—–According to the National Enquirer

    • 04/26/2013 at 8:59 pm

      yeah that was her doing those poses.. not him well her suggesting he do those poses.. so as usual truth in her crap

  44. 04/26/2013 at 8:57 pm

    @Syn, google Mormon undergarments, lots of wiki links, pics, etc.

    http://mormonundergarments.net/mormon-undergarments.html

    Just one link.

    • 04/26/2013 at 9:07 pm

      bubble do you know if Jodistein would/could have had these?

      • 04/26/2013 at 9:18 pm

        Syn, she could have owned a set, espsh if she’s trying to ensnare a young up and coming LDS in her web. But they would have had no value to her at all. Why do you ask? Did you see the pics on the link I sent?

      • 04/26/2013 at 9:45 pm

        just something CI said that got me thinking along the lines of the blood atonement as described in Shot in the Heart – the Gilmore story

      • Chrissie A
        04/26/2013 at 9:41 pm

        I’m betting that she didn’t wear them

  45. Anna
    04/26/2013 at 9:26 pm

    no clue what u people been up to lately. decided to start speaking via other’s songs for myself for now…but always thinking of my Justice friends & hopin’ the best. always. So from Simon&Garfunkel’s “Kodachrome” this is for the once womb of jodistein:
    “I got a Nikon camera
    I love to take a photograph
    So mama don’t take my Kodachrome away.”

  46. 04/26/2013 at 9:35 pm

    BB out. Gnight

  47. 04/26/2013 at 9:48 pm

    Let’s PRETEND she gets acquitted, big fat chance huh? I know about double jeopardy but would that still apply if JA turned around and said yeah I did it and here’s how, with explicit details and on top of that with the attitude of gotcha! No repercussions?!?!

    • NancyB
      04/26/2013 at 10:19 pm

      None.

  48. Anniefreeze
    04/26/2013 at 9:51 pm

    Here is a pic of the 3rd juror ejected. Hope the link works. @CoreyABC15: “Juror 8” was arrested for DUI. A few days later, judge dismissed him from jury. Here’s his mug shot. #JodiArias http://t.co/zJbuhyucqc

  49. Anniefreeze
    04/26/2013 at 10:03 pm

    Here is the article about juror 8.

    Dismissed Arias juror speaks out
    Corey Rangel
    Updated: 24 minutes ago

    ABC15 has now confirmed a man arrested over the weekend on a DUI charge was the most recent juror dismissed in the Jodi Arias trial.

    According to Gilbert police, Daniel Gibb was arrested on Saturday and told the arresting officer he was a member of the jury.

    On Tuesday, the officer was called into a “sealed proceeding” with the judge, the prosecutor and the defense attorneys.

    What was discussed in the secret meeting is confidential.

    Two days later, juror #8 was dismissed and the judge gave no reason.

    Gibb gave ABC15 a statement saying: “It was a privilege to know the other jurors and I will miss them. It was actually a great experience. Thank you for respecting my privacy.”

    Neighbors tell ABC15 Gibb and his wife and informed them he was on the jury, but Gibb followed court orders and never spoke about the case.

    Herman Weiner, a family friend, said while Gibb proudly served on the jury, Gibb’s wife hinted the restrictions of the trial had an impact on the family.

    “She’d be like I’m glad when this will be over. My husband will be back to the family, I’m happy this will be over pretty soon,” said Weiner.

    It turns out; Gibb left the trial earlier than expected when the judge dismissed him from the case on Thursday.

    “You know he could have two schools of thought. He could be like I put so much into this I’d like to see this to the end or he could be like what a relief. I get back to my normal way of life right now,” said Weiner.

    • 04/26/2013 at 10:51 pm

      Just read all of this and read the news stories Hard to believe really….

  50. NancyB
    04/26/2013 at 10:18 pm

    I’m predicting a First Degree Murder Charge. As far as the DP in this case, I believe it will be imposed. This is a vicious, brutal murder. I hate thinking about the extent that he surely suffered. JA has been exposed as an obsessed psychopathic ex-girlfriend who took vindictive to a whole new level.

    As far as that sorry excuse for a mitigation specialist – major fail for you! JA exposed her various personalities on the stand and the sum total of observing that 18 day sideshow showcased for all, that she is a ugly hollow shell and unlikely to offer much of anything worthwhile to others, should she be allowed to live. Her lies on the stand became very transparent, particularly regarding the many versions of the gun. Juries do not respond well to being treated like idiots.

    Juan has done a remarkable job of rehabilitating Travis’ character as a loving and generous human being who treated JA with kindness and simply responded to her sexual advances in kind. Finally, the presence of a grieving family has a big impact on a jury. They can feel the loss. Justice for Travis is very close to a being a reality.

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:58 am

      From your lips to God’s ears!!! I truly hope so because the Alexander family has suffered enough!!! Just having to go into chambers with JA must be hell for them. My heart aches for that family.

  51. 04/26/2013 at 10:20 pm

    #319 To Cici-Thank you very much for telling me about that video.WOW! I wish they could show that in court. What a perfect, step by step account of Jodi’s sick premeditated plan to kill Travis. To the person who made it: GREAT JOB!! It gives great insight to every move Jodi made during her trip and clear premeditated explanations for each of them.

    Thanks to all who eased my worry about the jury. You saved me a bottle of wine lol 😉 Can’t wait til next week!!!

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      04/26/2013 at 11:22 pm

      You are very welcome! There are bright people in this site and thanks to our host Donchais we are able to share our insights without the worry of being disrespected in any way. It’s a great support group here and we’re all supportive of each other with one goal in mind…..JUSTICE FOR TRAVIS ALEXANDER!!

  52. kristin
    04/26/2013 at 10:36 pm

    Aloha everyone! Lots of new names:) I always miss out reading follow ups to my questions in the previous discussion: ( Donchais, when do you typically close discussion out? Is it a time or amount of postings? How long is the delay between verdict and penalty phase? Does the jury already know they will elect the dp at time of verdict? What I’m trying to get at is, can the jury read media, learn all about JAs “art” work, tweets, etc before they decide on life or death? Have a great weekend my friends! ~~raises a Bud light ~~ sorry its what I like!!

  53. 04/26/2013 at 10:50 pm

    i assume that everyone knows that Juror # 8 was dismissed due to a DUI he received on the previous Saturday evening and it broke on one of the news stations in the US just in the last day or so. Anyone else heard this yet as I’ve seen no mention of it yet?

    • NancyB
      04/27/2013 at 2:31 pm

      Hi Trial Watcher! Yes there are comments on this in the previous thread and also upstairs on this one.

  54. cyn clarke
    04/26/2013 at 10:56 pm

    Syntara :tow I think that pcture will resonate with the jury,not so much the position of his head but that WOBO appears to be dragging him. i think that scene really puts everthing in perspective. she can wind her chair down all she wants but they see what she is truly capable of.
    also, how many of us women when we meet a guy who wants to date go home and look in the mirror and ask ourselves what he found attractive so that we can replicate it for the 1st date. why would she, going to meet RB, change her hair color? there are 6 woman on the jury and I beleive that they will see this as pre med. does anyone agree?
    Moon take a look at that pic…. look at the blood pattern and he is in the spot where all the blood was and they conjectured his throat was slit there. It looks like it has just happened or is happening.. it’s bizarre that shot is taken there because I can’t get my head around how come the camera was there. Still not have an answer for that.

    • Anniefreeze
      04/27/2013 at 12:24 am

      I’m still wondering how the camera got there too. All I can come up with is it probably got tangled up when Travis was fighting for his life, they play have wrestled for a second between stabbings???

      • Anniefreeze
        04/27/2013 at 12:25 am

        Uggghh. Sorry. They may have wrestled…

      • 04/27/2013 at 1:58 am

        yes Anniefreeze… I can understand it being dragged to the shower as she dragged him back but how it got to where he managed to crawl to… that still has me thinking really hard for a reasonable scenario

  55. cyn clarke
    04/26/2013 at 10:58 pm

    This is abit screwed up, hopw it still makes sense.

  56. Douglme
    04/26/2013 at 11:10 pm

    Good evening, all! Just a couple of thoughts…could it be possible that Jodi dyed her hair because she thought Travis might like her brunette more??? His other true loves were brunettes!!! I think Jodi had to say that the gunshot was first because the stabbings in his back were obviously not self defense, so she decided to fake the fog and go with the gunshot first and made up the story of him attacking her and called it self defense. She is one sicko…these next 5 days are going to be hell. Loved the poem Travis wrote to the girl he wanted to marry…so emotional, loving and sincere. Had to get the tissues for that one!

    • 04/26/2013 at 11:13 pm

      Hiiii Mel! **waves**

    • 04/26/2013 at 11:19 pm

      Mel!! Nooooooo she didn’t dye her hair for any other reason than she didn’t want his neighbours to recognise her. They’s always known her as blonde. Don’t think there was anyone else she was worried about aside from them.

      Someone might add another reason that I can’t think of.

      • Douglme
        04/26/2013 at 11:38 pm

        ok thanks, it was just a thought…

      • 04/26/2013 at 11:40 pm

        hey Mel I dunno.. you could be right I just think it gives the Def an out if you think of it that it was for Travis.. I just can’t see it that way/… but hey… maybe Im thinking badly at the moment cos Ie been up all nigh and its nearly noon the following day!

      • Jill
        04/26/2013 at 11:42 pm

        Omg….time for u to get some shut eye!!!!!!!

      • Anniefreeze
        04/27/2013 at 12:30 am

        Hi syn and mel. I was thinking that she died it primarily for disguise, but she would tell Travis it was to be more natural, knowing he likes brunettes. I think you both are right.

      • 04/27/2013 at 12:41 am

        aahhhh now that could be the point… she would have had to explain it to Travis when she rocked up with the new hair style… was that why she took those pics to send him? hmmmm just things to make you go hmmmmmm when I am thinking straight I need to mull this.

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 11:52 pm

      Hey Missie! How are ya Mel??? So glad to see you….

  57. Family of Law
    04/26/2013 at 11:32 pm

    WhereIsSHE :
    Hi WIS- way upstairs I sent you a couple of responses (and thank you)
    This is the link to the April 4th court: Nurmi asked for juror sequestration as well as a “drop dead” stop time for court- Yes, truth can be stranger than fiction.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=lNwd0O9ag78

    • WhereIsSHE
      04/27/2013 at 9:11 pm

      Thanks, FoL!
      Stranger than fiction –for me, from a professional perspective–is not the asking part, but rather in the GRANTING of such a ridiculous request part by the judge.
      Fine.
      Stop court on a particular day IF the defendant actually exhibits a medically verifiable condition that makes it impossible for her to participate in her defense (because she has a constitutional right to participate in her own defense).
      But stop court EVERY DAY at a particular hour, just because it is ALLEGED that the defendant COULD suffer a migraine headache???
      Now THAT is off-the-charts “accomodation”.

      • Family of Law
        04/27/2013 at 9:45 pm

        So, you’ve never encountered this kind of request being granted by a judge? Then I will have to chalk it up to yet another example of this judge being cautiously lenient to the point of being unprecedented. JA seems to have been not just participating in her defense, rather she appears to be the puppeteer- Last week, when the judge gave the schedule to the jury, she said that Wednesday will be a long day, and that it will go for as long as necessary- hope the DT has a couple of Power Bars in their briefcases 🙂

  58. 04/26/2013 at 11:42 pm

    Family of Law :
    My post was a “courtesy flush” of sorts- one individual continued for a couple of days to make jabs at a few posters.

    What’s a “courtesy flush”?

    • Family of Law
      04/26/2013 at 11:57 pm

      *Politely flushing the stink, mid sit. I was upset over someone that seemed to just enjoy making jabs at several peoples posts- and insulting nice people’s intelligence. Plus I had a mea culpa to make as well-

      • WhereIsSHE
        04/27/2013 at 9:15 pm

        Totally off topic here…
        FoL- you totally rock, providing that definition of the “courtesy flush”! (I never heard the the term until –several years ago–our older son came home from college and started to announce to the household that he was “kind enough” to “pull a courtesy flush”!)

      • Family of Law
        04/27/2013 at 9:36 pm

        Lol! Thanks WIS- That’s very funny about your son, college teaches them so much!

  59. Schaeffer
    04/26/2013 at 11:43 pm

    Re: my question about garments

    I am serious, not making fun, thus directing question to Observer, who is LDS. I am asking because there has been speculation about whether he was sleeping or awake in at least one of the photos taken in the bedroom on 4 June, and/or if he knew the photo was being taken. In the photo, he was naked, but based on other photos I’ve seen, I think he probably did sleep in his garments, and probably wore pajamas over them, especially when alone. They are frequently visible under his shorts, and are also visible under his robe in the photo of him shaving, so I’m just wondering about the customs associated with them.

    • 04/27/2013 at 12:10 am

      I too was asking seriously. I want to know in a serious manner as was CI. We were trying to understand just like you Schaeffer. The reason was because of the reference to the ‘protection ritual’ and the statement that some of the undergarments were found in the washer or dryer.

    • 04/27/2013 at 8:20 pm

      hi schaeffer I don’t know if you got your answer yet. I was raised Mormon, do not currently practice the faith, however, my parents wore garments & so does my brother. Within the faith I believe you get garments when you become temple worthy. My parents were married in the temple & my dad was in the priesthood. My brother became temple worthy by going on a mission. Now I can’t speak for every one, but I do know that my family members slept in their garments. So it wouldn’t surprise me that most do. However do you remember Deanna testify that when they went to their bishops that they lost their temple recommends. Also Mimi had said that she thought Travis wasn’t temple worthy @ that time. So for him to be sleeping & having JA surprise him while he slept nekkie doesn’t seem like a huge stretch for me.

  60. Tracey A
    04/26/2013 at 11:47 pm

    Chrissie A :
    WIS – with all due respect please watch this footage, (same as FoW posted) without the mobile link and give feedback:

    Ty Girlfriend! Thank you for posting the video. I needed that to back my up! I rest my case your Honor! 🙂

    • Tracey A
      04/26/2013 at 11:48 pm

      Sorry Donchais! My bad Honey…so sorry.

      • WhereIsSHE
        04/27/2013 at 9:20 pm

        Tracey A-
        Your case is solid.
        Mea culpa!
        I have just never seen a judge accomodate a defendant like this, based on a claim of a POSSIBLE medical illness arising!
        Sorry for the doubt!

  61. 04/26/2013 at 11:55 pm

    No reply yet but I DID READ this story about Juror # 8 . Has anyone heard of this DUI charge or is this just that, A story?

    • 04/27/2013 at 2:06 am

      yes and we have seen a picture of him too.. he looks totally dismayed at himself ..

  62. Chrissie A
    04/27/2013 at 12:07 am

    TexiBelle :
    Chrissie A, you’re a bada$$ with photo and vid-can you add back in his manly scruff, replace his button down with lightly perspiring pecs, and dub his testimony with some dirty talk? I need something to get me through to Wednesday. Kthx.

    LOL! Will work on it just for you honey! ~hug~

    • Anniefreeze
      04/27/2013 at 12:34 am

      Hi Chrissie and texi, that is exactly what I was dreaming of, lmao. Chrissie your are a genius, those pics make me giggle and put a smile here on this gloomy subject. Thank you so much!

  63. Schaeffer
    04/27/2013 at 12:11 am

    Tracey A — this is what I wrote after you explained about PCH. You very well may have seen it before, but I’m going to re-post it her.

    OK, I can see what you’re saying about the time. However, it was pointed out that she didn’t take any pictures on this trip, even though she said she wanted to “add to her portfolio.” She didn’t even take photos of The Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake, and that is pretty much the mecca of the Mormon Church.

    Plus, I don’t think she gave a rat’s ass about anything on “The 1,000 Places” — she only did that because it was something Travis wanted to do, and it was a way to invite herself along on those trips. Also, if she went to those places alone, she wouldn’t have an excuse to go there with Travis. In her psycho mind, she probably thought they would go there together another time, or worse, she could go alone later and then write in that damn journal “Well, today I drove down PCH and stopped at all the places Travis and I had planned to visit. I went to commune with his spirit and honor his memory since he passed away before he could see these amazing sights and make memories himself.”

    Several weeks ago on Dr. Drew, there were a couple of young men friends of Travis’s who talked about a surfing trip they planned. It was to be the 3 guys going to San Diego, but WOBO said “Oh, I’ll go.” In an effort to discourage her, they changed it to Mexico, thinking “She will never go to Mexico with 3 guys, Mexico is too dangerous.” But, of course she still invited herself along and went with them. These guys detested her, they said she ruined the trip, and they said when Travis was in the water, she would sidle up next to them in her skin tight wet suit (or whatever one wears surfing) and be overtly sexually aggressive and invade their personal space. They said she did it specifically to make Travis jealous, telling him THEY wouldn’t leave HER alone!!

    New input — I think Juan proved she had her hair dyed on 3 June; she just had too much time unaccounted for, and now we know why. If she wasn’t so damn vain and always taking pictures of herself, she might not have provided the answer to the question “When did she dye her hair?” Re: the braids. She braided her hair because braids are much less likely to shed! That’s why she was so shocked they found her hair; she thought washing the sheets would have taken care of any hair she might have lost while there. Also,she would want her hairstyle to be something she wouldn’t have to wash so soon after coloring her hair.

    • Tracey A
      04/27/2013 at 12:59 am

      To each their own, my friend, to each their own.

      • Schaeffer
        04/27/2013 at 2:06 am

        but of course

  64. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 12:16 am

    Hi Syn
    here are some articles I found for you

    http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/underwear/
    http://www.mrm.org/blood-atonement

    Again no offense meant to Observer – but I am a firm believer in the saying the more you know the less ignorant you are. And not being a Mormon myself I find that researching things I know nothing about helps me to understand.

  65. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 12:20 am

    WhereIsSHE :
    Hey Tracey A-
    Please know that I meant no disrespect to you or your accounting of events.
    It is just BEYOND fathom (to someone with 20 yrs of trial experience) that a judge would
    even entertain a “4:30 p.m.” absolute cut-off for testimony, every day of a multi-month long trial, when you have a defendant with no known history of migraines, and who was able to function past that hour for all of her adult life (waiting tables for dinner service in too many restaurants to count; driving all night, across state lines, to pay “booty-call” visits, etc.)
    So while I did not personally hear Nurmi say it– and did not likewise hear this “migraine” explanation for it, I am shocked to hear that the judge actually entered an ORDER granting this beyond-out-of-the-ordinary request from the defense.
    I mean.. it is unheard of, particularly for the reason that trial judges try to accomodate the JURORS and witnesses, mainly, and NOT the ERSATZ illness claims of the defendant.
    Talk about an obvious stalling tactic.
    If the judge granted Jodi this sort of off-the-charts “accomodation”, I would expect that she would require a medical doctor to provide testimony, on the record, to support such an audacious request, and since I am not aware that this ever took place in this case, I just find it really surprising to believe that any such request was actually granted.
    The only time you will typically see a time-deadline sort of request made by counsel is when they are either a) “attached” for trial–as in COURT-ORDERED to “appear”, or b) when a witness has some time-related conflict such that they simply cannot attend after a certain date.
    Not saying that I doubt that Nurmi would be bold enough to make the request; just shocked that there would be a court Order GRANTING such a request.
    I mean… think of the ramifications for jurors (not to mention the TAXPAYERS) that this kind of ruling could set as precedent for cases in the pipeline!
    The DEFENDANT controls the pace of the case by simply having his/her attorney say he/she can’t be in court past 4:30p.m.–every day of the trial, no matter how long it is expected to last–????
    That is just… entirely ….. BANANAS.
    Has testimony–or any proceeding that would require the defendant’s presence–NEVER continued after 4:30p.m. during this entire case???
    I ask, because I really don’t know the answer, and even with the time change, I’m fairly sure such a court-ordered time restraint would have been the topic of intense debate within the legal community (separate from discussions about the actual crime itself).
    I would like to review the discourse between Nurmi and the judge on this topic if you have a link–or even just a date, because this is a serious legal issue.

    ______________________________________________________

    WIS – I distinctly remember this just as Tracey & Jim do. Thank goodness for Donchais’ supremely excellent recaps or I never would have found proof for you!

    From Donchais’ Day24 – Feb. 26th:

    Afternoon recess.

    On return, Nurmi asks to approach and Judge calls a 10-minute recess.

    Ok, pop-quiz…how much abuse have we heard today?????

    Jodi conferring with her lawyers at the defense table.

    Jury back at 3:45.

    Judge releases the jury and tells them to return at 10:15 in the morning!

    Nurmi wants to put on the record…Ms. Arias has not had access to lunches; the sheriff’s office hasn’t provided them.

    Jodi has migraines and court needs 4:30 to be the drop-dead time!

    Awww, poor Jodi, feel so sorry for her…NOT!!!

    Don’t forget folks, 15 minute earlier start tomorrow…snicker!
    ______________________________________________

    And here’s a 3 min video clip so you can hear it for yourself!



    • Schaeffer
      04/27/2013 at 2:27 am

      I agree about the ramifications for future trials; it almost dares the attorneys to come up with an excuse to manipulate trial times. I can easily see someone arguing their client can’t possibly be in court until after noon because they simply MUST have a full eight hours of sleep, or they need sufficient time for their morning meds to kick in, etc.

      Judge Stephens was re-elected in 2012 with a little over 73% of the vote; it will be interesting to see how she fares in the next election.

      Because I could not bear to listen to JW and ALV, ,I missed this little exchange — very interesting. I cannot believe how snippy JW was with the Judge. I wonder how many judges would have tolerated her attitude and how many would have slapped her with a contempt charge?

      • Anniefreeze
        04/27/2013 at 3:03 am

        Thanks Schaefer, I feel I’ll every time I see Lala. She WAS reading and caught by judge and lied. MORON!!!!💩💩💩💩🚽

    • Tracey A
      04/27/2013 at 2:51 am

      Thank you GF! Really appreciate that. Thanks for posting that!

    • Anniefreeze
      04/27/2013 at 3:25 am

      Hi WIS, Tracey and Nancy, I am wondering if the 4:30 deadline reason could have something to do with the prison schedule. How long does it take a prisoner to get the Security belt removed, change clothes, get notebooks searched, shackles installed, loaded with other prisoners into the van, drive to prison, unload van, intake, security check, unshackled…they have to get back before dinner ends. The prison staff can not change their schedule most likely. What are your thoughts?

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 2:42 pm

        Hi Anniefreeze – I don’t believe that. Court had been ending around 5:30PM and occasionally later, when court began at 1PM. Judge Stephens is not a newbie judge! She IS new to a death penalty trial but she has years of experience and would not be unaware of what prison schedules require.

        Nurmi had previously complained that Jodi had sometimes missed her evening meal and that she shouldn’t have to eat her meal later then the other inmates. It had nothing to do with the jail not being able to accommodate a later arrival time back at Estrella. That is ludicrous to believe, in my opinion.

    • TexiBelle
      04/27/2013 at 8:15 am

      I swear I have caught Judge Stephens smiling and even giving a little nod sometimes, during juror questions when the camera is on her. I think it was mostly during questions for Dr. DeSmarty, when she gave a concise, logical answer that basically damned JA. It was like judge Stephens was saying, “yes, that is what is totally obvious to all of us. Thank you for bringing the sanity back to this trial.”

    • kCruzk123
      04/27/2013 at 9:50 am

      NancyB, good morning. I too remember the day that Nurmi thought he could tell the Judge when she had to end the trial for the day but if you listen to the Judge’s response she says that she has already spoken to the jail and they insure that JA is getting her meal (this is to say that they are taking her “brunch” meal and cutting it in two. This way she can eat one in the morning and the second for lunch. The jail only provides 2 meals/day, brunch and evening.)
      His protest was that JA gets migraines because she wasn’t getting her meals. So, I would think that if they have to stay later in a day that would just mean that the jail would pack her ‘dinner’ meal also.

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 3:26 pm

        Hi kCruz! Maybe so. But I actually thought that since it’s the only ‘hot’ meal of the day that they just served it to her once she was back on her pod. I think she objected to not getting to eat with her jail buddies and that she did not like missing out on that. I have nothing to prove this, just my opinion. 🙂

  66. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 12:25 am

    Hi all I posted 2 links and now and it says your comment is awaiting moderation what do?

  67. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 12:26 am

    Maybe I will post the links one at a time.

    For you Syn – Again no offense meant to Observer

    http://www.mrm.org/blood-atonement

  68. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 12:28 am

    http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/underwear/

    Here is the second link – Just I beleive in researching things I know nothing about. I believe in the saying the more you know the less ignorant you are.

    • 04/27/2013 at 12:46 am

      Im so like you in that way CI.. I Have an enquiring mind being a scientist by profession and nature. 🙂 thanks for the links going to look

    • 04/27/2013 at 1:00 am

      CI have you seen a pic of these? I just saw them and I Have to say with Jodisteins narcissistic personality.. I am thinking there is no way she would wear these. Have you seen them?

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 2:19 am

        I have Syn – and I must admit that Jodistein would not wear these (they represent modesty and purity – which is not in her vocabulary – not sexy enough for her. But that leaves me to wonder how Travis’ ended up in the washer with the camera bloody towels, and bloody clothing. They are after all pure white. I think I read that these garments are to be respected and have special washing and care instructions.

      • 04/27/2013 at 3:02 am

        ya but I still think the blood atonement is still relevant for me… not sure about the garments though just can’t see Jodiestien wearing them

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 4:35 am

        Syn, I can – It was something that was very sacred and personal to him – she wanted to strip him of everything dignity, reputation his faith.

        I just had another sick thought -remember when she told Det. Flores, that she would beg for the death penalty if she was guilty because she did not want to spend the rest of her life in jail.

        What if she really meant she would beg for the death penalty because that way she would be with Travis sooner and it would be forever because they would both still be young and attractive when they died and be happily ever after…

        Oh god now I’m scaring myself here.

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 3:44 pm

        As I stated above about her begging for the death penalty and being with Travis forever – is that she could torture him,stalk him, and could be with him for eternity.(this i of course what I think Jodi is thinking in her twisted mind)

        Syn any thoughts. Maybe I now need therapy just trying to understand her and how she thinks – is it even possible to figure her out.

  69. Anna
    04/27/2013 at 12:30 am

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:34 am

      Anna darlin’ you’re definitely turning me into a Rascal Flatts fan! {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} we thinking of ya!

  70. Moon
    04/27/2013 at 1:15 am

    just heading off to la-la land but hope you all will smile a bit remembering this one!

    • 04/27/2013 at 1:43 am

      What does Harry Potter have to do with this trial? 😉

      • 04/27/2013 at 1:50 am

        ? Mark what ya on about mate?

      • donchais
        04/27/2013 at 2:03 am

        that was funny!

    • 04/27/2013 at 2:50 am

      waaaaa I dont get it!!!!!

      • 04/27/2013 at 2:53 am

        ohhhhh I get it.. the harry potter glasses.. omg I am soooo stoooopid!

    • kCruzk123
      04/27/2013 at 9:53 am

      Good one! Thanks for the smile.

  71. Kathy A.
    04/27/2013 at 2:20 am

    I’ve been curious about something. Did the judge issue any form of a gag order in this case? I know Juan hasn’t talked to the media, but generally in these high-publicity cases, the defense counsel is blabbing all over the place, but Nurmi and Wilmot have been no where near the cameras.

    • C.I.
      04/27/2013 at 2:29 am

      Maybe Kathy. Remember whenJuan was taking pictures with fans- Wingnut and Recliner guy wanted a mistrial based on prosecutorial misconduct thinking a juror might have seen. Besides I think they were just jealous that Juan was getting attention and they were not.

    • 04/27/2013 at 3:16 am

      Juan the Rockstar… (Nurmi objects.. he wants to be one too!) ….and lots of other great clips

      Warning do not look if easily offended.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZZ-gmsQ-Wc

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 4:40 am

        Love It Syn – say it all

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 10:19 am

        I never get tired of watching that video – I love the Dexter reference and wish he would go to AZ for a visit! 😆

      • Kathy A.
        04/28/2013 at 10:54 am

        This is such an excellent video.

  72. NancyB
    • 04/27/2013 at 9:14 am

      It’s too good for her!

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:07 am

      I totally agree – way too good for her and I don’t want her to live there for years and years costing the AZ taxpayers any more money!!! 👿

  73. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 6:57 am

    An ex-correction officer had her 2009 conviction for smuggling a knife to her jailed gang-banger boyfriend overturned this week by a divided Manhattan appellate court panel.
    The court split 3-2 in ruling Jennifer Bartholomew’s right to a fair trial was violated when the prosecutor cross-examined her about her boyfriend’s gang life and lengthy rap sheet. But one of the dissenters, Judge David Friedman, said any errors stemming from the cross were outweighed by Bartholomew’s overwhelming guilt and the “ludicrous” nature of her testimony.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/

    Couple of thoughts: 1) there is no certainty of what is ‘right’ since the decision was 3-2 and 2) such thinking might be a way to at least accept the agonizing way Judge Stephens has proceeded or 3) just anothe rexample of our judicial system bending over backwards.

  74. 04/27/2013 at 8:26 am

    C.I. :
    Syn, I can – It was something that was very sacred and personal to him – she wanted to strip him of everything dignity, reputation his faith.

    I just had another sick thought -remember when she told Det. Flores, that she would beg for the death penalty if she was guilty because she did not want to spend the rest of her life in jail.
    What if she really meant she would beg for the death penalty because that way she would be with Travis sooner and it would be forever because they would both still be young and attractive when they died and be happily ever after…
    Oh god now I’m scaring myself here.

    Her life taken would be blood atonement for taking his life, according to the blood atonement doctrine.

    • 04/27/2013 at 9:42 am

      Don’t think she cares bout atoning herself she’s far too self righteous for that.. just think it was about ‘justifying’ and convincing herself she was ‘saving’ him because he had broken the law of chastity and it was up to her to punish him..(her god complex)

      Of course that’s all just convenient excuse all part of her disordered mind …her real motivation was to punish him for daring to not want her and she knows it.

      The rest is her sick interpretations of convenience. All movie and drama references because that’s what she looks to for guidance and ideas. That’s all too evident.

      • 04/27/2013 at 6:26 pm

        Yeah probably but this is something to finding the garments in the washer along with the other stuff. She is so twisted that she may have figured he needed to atone to her. Is that what u r thinking?

  75. 04/27/2013 at 9:02 am

    G’Day Mates! I had the weirdest dream last night! I dreamt that I met JM(Ha!), and he had on a Hawaiian shirt, and I kept trying to tell him about this website, and about you guys and your diff theories on how JA committed this crime. But he wouldn’t listen! He just kept smiling and patting me on the back! Weird, huh?

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 10:01 am

      Don’t tell MMD, she’ll be after you for stealing her dreamboat….In that vein, I woke up one day during the week and found that I had blood on my hands. Of course (a la wobo),I immediately thought I had killed someone. Further investigation showed I had nicked my nose while shaving and during the night, blood got all overthe pillow and my hand. Didn’t use costco water to clean,just regular tap water.

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 10:10 am

        Morning Robert – you are tooooooooooooo funny!!!! :grin”

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 2:12 pm

        too funny

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:08 am

      It was just a dream silly – He knows all about this website and the peeps on here. But ever being the gentleman, he humoured you and just patted ya on the back 😆

    • 04/27/2013 at 11:45 am

      The patting on the back and smiling to meant that…..”I got dis!” (a la George Lopez).

  76. Wendy
    04/27/2013 at 9:20 am

    Good mornin all you wonderful peeps!! Hope everyone has a great day! I’ve been checking in occasionally. You guys make me smile. I wish we could all get together when this one is over. You guys could do the talking and I would just listen and cook for ya. 😃

  77. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 9:57 am

    Good day to all fellow sandboxers! Ivwe been in and out so far today, Miss you all!

  78. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 10:07 am

    When Jim pops in–Thank you for that link about LaToilette, I loved the writing as well as the outrage behind it. Also, I knew she first got an ‘associate” degree but didn’t know it was in phys ed!!!! hahaha Guess she first tried to be a coach for women’s basketball, and be around women.

  79. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 10:10 am

    Also, yesterday there was talk and video of the “4.30” comment by Wormi. Another case of gender discrimination. Can you imagine a Hell’s Angel guy or some Afro or Latino thug on trial for slicing up his GF and having the Judge even remotely concerned about whether or not he had lunch or a headache?

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:12 am

      Nope – but JA is running this trial and we all know it!!!! 👿

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/27/2013 at 10:19 am

        Thats what kills me. Everyone bending sideways for this bitch. I wish we had a Judge version of Doc Janeen, she wouldn’t take any gruff.I seriously doubt she would make decisions based on gender. A “Judge” La Toillette, on the other hand, would cut the court to a half day so that wobo could draw and support her grieving parents.

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 10:23 am

        This would have been over months ago if Judge Perry had been on the case and there wouldn’t have been any talk of quitting at 4:30 either!!!!!!!!!!

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 10:24 am

        Plus Wurmi would HAVE to sit up and at least pretend to show respect to the court. Judge Perry ALWAYS rose for the jurors as well. I notice that Judge Stephens doesn’t.

  80. MMD
    04/27/2013 at 10:10 am

    Morning all ********waves********* anyone around???????????

  81. MMD
    04/27/2013 at 10:11 am

    This will be our last weekend waiting for the end of trial. Hopefully the jury will be quick and just!

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 10:15 am

      waves hello to MMD and wonders whether or not this will be the last weekend since I’ve learned ya never know with the courts.

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 10:21 am

        Ain’t it the truth, especially in this case!!! 🙄

  82. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 10:23 am

    Also, although I normally have no pity for those caught DUI, I kinda felt sorry for this guy, juror #8. I mean all that time away from home and not able to discuss anything; having things boil up inside, feeling lonely. Hell, we all feel like drinking at distances of thousands of miles over this case. I just feel sorry for him and hope it doesn’t wreck more of his life – particularly if it is shown that he has never had a DUI.

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:27 am

      I kinda felt sorry for him as well – not the DUI part but the fact that it was causing problems in his family. We can only just imagine. Since he was not convicted of anything, I think he should have been able to finish his time on the jury as he obviously was very invested if the amount of notes was any indication.

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/27/2013 at 10:32 am

        good point. I mean since when is someone dropped for not playing by the rules OUTSIDE the court rules? Someone speeding or not paying taxes or violating a sound ordinance or pushing someone at the gas station? Where do you draw a line?

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 10:40 am

        Exactly!!!!!! Ya know that the defense was gunning for him anyway and probably really put the pressure on the judge and once again, she caved!

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 12:06 pm

        Agreed.

  83. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 10:29 am

    MMD :
    Plus Wurmi would HAVE to sit up and at least pretend to show respect to the court. Judge Perry ALWAYS rose for the jurors as well. I notice that Judge Stephens doesn’t.

    .

    I’m at a slight disadvantage since I didn’t follow the CA case. But I get your point and Ive seen a number of Judges that would have moved this along as well as maintained decorum. The Dr Murray and the Spector trails for instance. Certainly NOT the OJ trial.

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 10:38 am

      Judge Michael Pastor in the Dr. Murray case was excellent as was the prosecutor!!!! Still not as good as Judge Perry. If you hadn’t had time to depose someone, well what was wrong with the hours between court letting out and the next morning????? Just a question he asked but in his down home nice way 😀

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 2:04 pm

        Judge Pastor is widely considered to be one of the most intelligent, organized and effective judges in LA County. During the MJ trial he announced in open court that all of the attorneys were forbidden from conducting media interviews or press conferences. All were warned that they would be severely sanctioned if the judge’s admonitions were not followed. Not long after that, one of Murray’s lawyers went back to NYC for a few days and while there he participated in an extended sit down interview. The
        content of that interview was pure defense spin and devoid of any factual content. When that attorney arrived back in court Judge Pastor blasted him in open court along with issuing a significant fine.

        In contrast, I believe that Judge Perry turned out to be nothing more than a paper tiger. HOWEVER, in that high profile case, he came in with both barrels loaded, “grandstanding” in his own way, that he was going to get this case tried ON SCHEDULE, get control of the circus. He was in the position of also being the Chief Justice for the Ninth Judicial Circuit. Those responsibilities required that he was fiscally responsible and mindful of the costs at all times, which is a good thing.

        BUT, he threatened to rule with an iron fist, and we did not see him follow through with his numerous threats to hold Baez in contempt of court at the conclusion of the trial. Crickets. The unprepared and repeated unprofessional antics of Jose Baez, who the jury liked because he wasn’t “like a lawyer”; allowing the “drowning” to even be mentioned based on the existence of a swimming pool and potential ladder climbing ability of a child; the repeated efforts to put witnesses on trial, and repeatedly calling George to the stand which is not normally done.

        Judge Perry did NOT reign in the defense, as he threatened to do on a weekly basis. The prosecution played by the rules, the defense did not. The “referee” did not penalize the defense team, and they continued to play dirty until the bitter end.

        Defense lawyers should never be allowed to fabricate or invent absurd scenarios, as they often do. Society has an obligation to protect the innocent. Laws have been mangled into games to aid the guilty and the hijinks continue. Defense lawyers can hide behind the rule that exempts them from any legal or moral responsibility for what they say in the courtroom. Why is it that defense attorneys are not compelled to stick to facts, not whole cloth inventions to escape reality? It is one thing to defend the accused. Another, to aid and abet, when those same lawyers are in a position to know beyond a reasonable doubt which client is really a danger to society and should be separated from society.

        I definitely believe that a judge that has a sequestered jury, as Perry did, must be mindful of their comfort needs but not to the exclusion of holding them accountable for the job the state is paying them to do.

        Perry bended over backwards to accommodate that jury with sweets each afternoon and planned activities during their down time. Weekly restaurant requests were readily accommodated. While that is commendable I believe that Judge Perry pampered that brain dead jury who instead of taking any notes during the voluminous amount of testimony given, were forever sending notes with their requests to the judge.

        I also believe that Judge Perry is accountable for not demanding that the prosecution and defense teams presented UNDERSTANDABLE information on what constitutes reasonable doubt and how it differs from shadow of a doubt. This should be required for every trial.

        Lastly, I think Judge Perry is brilliant in his knowledge of case law, and diligent in researching case law rather than just “judging” based on his own opinions and/or agendas. For that I feel he has rightfully earned a high level of respect.

  84. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 11:45 am

    in today’s paper, about a “drug lord’s” GF who had taken over his gig:

    “Under the deal, she faces up to 15 years in prison at a sentencing hearing scheduled for July 25.
    The 52-year-old, who shamelessly flirted and flipped her hair when Mexican agents arrested her in 2007, had been indicted by a Florida federal grand jury three years before on conspiracy to import massive amounts of cocaine.
    While jailed in Mexico, she was reportedly allowed to receive Botox treatments.”

    OK. Easy question, but who first comes to mind?

  85. Allison
    04/27/2013 at 11:57 am

    So – after Thursday’s short day – I re-watched the original ME testimony from way back – and then tried to find the testimony of Flores with Nurmi with and without the jury (where he is questioned about the sequence of events regarding the shooting taking place first or last and all that – BUT I still need help from you guys to understand . . . How did Flores think the shooting came first – if the ME report doesn’t say anything about a sequence? I am not knocking Flores or anything – I just wanted to get a bit clearer on this part.

    Also, I think because Jodi didn’t come clean with the story that she was there that day until 2010 (???) then was it that they (Flores) were already saying the shot came first and then Jodi just went with that story when she decided to say she was there???

    Thanks 🙂

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 12:36 pm

      I’ve wondered the same. I have assumed that Flores was at the autopsy and when the body was brought in, various things might have been said about the crime scene and what may have happened. Once Dr. Horne did the “Y” section and started the actual process, he found things that could not be explained any other way and I don’t think Flores was privy to his final report or analysis. I do think that information was given to wobo. I can’r recall him saying that in the video-that he was shot first – but I do think I sensed that was an implication that wobo jumped on (as she usually does).
      Hope someone with accuarate info chimes in…

    • Marilyn N
      04/27/2013 at 12:54 pm

      I believe Flores told Jodi the shot came first in her interrogation, and thus started her
      fictional accounting of the event.

      • 04/27/2013 at 9:09 pm

        Jodi in the interrogation I think is where it stuck in his mind from, yes… and Jodi then hooked onto that with the ninja story and that’s how it cemented in Det Flores mind

  86. Anna
    04/27/2013 at 12:01 pm

    I think this so cool – Billy Joel sings with a college student…Enjoy:

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 12:16 pm

      Hello Anna!! Good to see you. And I loved loved this when I first saw it. I talked to friends about it. It was generous on so many levels. One, not that many pros – in anything – would have invited the kid up. Joel has a lot of self confidence and would not be threatened and he’s curious. Two, the kid is amazingly humble about the whole experience while being absolutely dazzling. Three, Joel, continues his class professionalism, by treatring the kid as an equal artist in a venture. Beautiful on many, many levels.
      And, since GOOD things for TRAVIS is what we are about, this fits. 🙂

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 12:20 pm

        I loved it too when I first saw it!!! I especially loved it when Billy Joel at the end said I think he’s going to do ok (paraphrasing here) Not many artists would have been as generous!

        Now Anna darlin’ I already like Billy Joel and you’re getting me hooked on Rascal Flatts – who’s gonna be next and are ya ever gonna come back to us???????????????

      • C.I.
        04/27/2013 at 2:38 pm

        Thank you Anna!! This is great – I love Billy Joel – reminds us that there are more giving and generous people than there are evil ones.

    • annabananas1
      04/27/2013 at 12:36 pm

      Robert-spot on thx!!
      MMD {{{hugs back sweet}}}! Did u like that plaid movie? Miss ya but busy bee…💗

  87. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 12:06 pm

    Also in todays NY Times and article about a Dutch pychologist who faked data and wasn’t caught for a long time. From one comment on the story:

    “Perhaps, there are too many psycologists and not enough to do. These academics seem to be setting out to explore what common sense already has covered exhaustively. How much of the cost of university for students derives from having so many intellectual drones occupying high-salaried positions, yet doing nothing in particular?”

    Quick, who do you think of? (tough one since there are 2 correct answers!)

    • MMD
      04/27/2013 at 12:22 pm

      Of course Dr. Quack first and then ALV! 😀 Do I get a gold star sir?????????

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/27/2013 at 12:28 pm

        even after school time for a special bonus star

  88. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 12:12 pm

    Two other comments on same story:

    “A fascinating piece that gives new application to the “question authority” notion and indeed raises important questions about the use of data in scientific research, not only in psychology, but also across other fields.”

    LaLa anyone?

    “The thing that is nice about the hard sciences – chemistry, physics, etc – is that the proof of your research is simple; the ability of another research group to successfully reproduce your results.”

    This is why Dr Horne’s testimony is more important than Dr. Samuels or Dr Doc Janeen. It is more verifiable. It is uncontested since it could not be refuted with any kind of seriousness.

    • Jay
      04/27/2013 at 12:49 pm

      I agree, Robert. Here in the US most qualified observers don’t consider psychology a science for the very reason you state — the results are not reproducible or verifiable. All those tests given to Arias, for PTSD, etc. are based on subjective criteria with are then subjectively evaluated.

      Here’s a article (somewhat lengthy – there’s a link at the top for a shorter version) to explain why psychological studies of the mind are not scientific…

  89. Jay
    04/27/2013 at 12:32 pm

    MMD :
    I think he should have been able to finish his time on the jury as he obviously was very invested if the amount of notes was any indication.

    No way Martinez would have allowed that: no-brainer evidence for a retrial: juror with history of alcohol impairment would be mince-meat for the defense argument to overturn a guilty verdict

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 12:39 pm

      a “history” or an “incident”? Judges have been sited for DUI’s. Are all their cases overthrown?

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/27/2013 at 12:45 pm

        btw Jay: whats with “no-brainer”? Its THAT clear? No such “uncertainty” as I mentioned earlier in the 3-2 decision in NY?

        I mean one day earlier a comment about what I “could do” to enlarge my understanding of LDS, as well as an assumption about who – or even what – I was reading.

        You having bad days? Need another kind of drink? More Musso and Frank time?

      • MMD
        04/27/2013 at 1:15 pm

        TY Robert {{{{{hugs}}}}}}

      • Jay
        04/27/2013 at 2:32 pm

        It’s a ‘no-brainer’ that the defense would use that as reasoning for a new trial, Robert. I don’t understand your criticism for using that colloquialism to explain that. You wouldn’t need a long time history of aloha use — even if he was drunk during one day of testimony I’m sure that would disqualify him. And I’m equally sure Martinez didn’t object when the juror was removed — knowing it a legitimate reason for removal. I would think a judge arrested for DUI during a trial wouldn’t be removed — but the legal system as screwed up as it it, who knows how that would play out — but if a defendant was found guilty during a high-profile trial like this you, it’s a ‘no-brainer’ that would be appealed too.

        I don’t know what your breadth of knowledge is about LDS, and I was only politely trying to indicate that quoting the LDS Prophet as you did may be problematic to Agnostic-Skeptics like me, who have studied him and the history of the church. I have strong negative views of organized religion in general, but as this isn’t the venue for those views I’ve mostly remained silent when others here have posted hosannas to those invisible entities. I even kept my mouth shut when OBSERVER made her comments about garments, and blood revenge, which I knew were inaccurate (subsequently other postings linked to more objective history about it).

        And no, I’m not having a bad day, yet. And if you’re still offended, I’ll buy you a drink at Musso & Franks if & when you get here.

      • Jay
        04/27/2013 at 2:35 pm

        Sorry for typos — iPad problems..

      • 04/27/2013 at 10:49 pm

        Jay I dont think you needed to tell us you have “strong negative views” I think that was a “no brainer”.

      • Family of Law
        04/27/2013 at 10:52 pm

        Syn, you just provided a “courtesy flush”.

    • HJ Madison
      04/27/2013 at 12:46 pm

      Hi Jay, and RnR, MMD and others. You said it. SOOOO much of this trial is about preventing reversal, especially when we saw the current price tag. JA may think she runs the show now, but when we get to the penalty phase the tables will turn.

      Did you ever get a chance to find that summary about Geffner? The more I have thought about, the more I think all he will say is that traditional tests do not apply to DV and you have to use interviews only. Hmmmm… so anyone with a personality disorder can now lie about DV and get off, assuming they hire LaLa and chat her up for 44 hours? It is going to be a great cross examination!

  90. Jay
    04/27/2013 at 12:35 pm

    OT – Alert !!

    If anyone is a LivingSocial user, check your email today: their databases were hacked, and customer passwords and personal data breached. Any similar passwords you use need to be changed; and for safety the credit card you use on the site.

  91. Marilyn N
    04/27/2013 at 12:50 pm

    Hello everyone!
    I was thinking wouldn’t it be GREAT if the jury had 1/2 hour to
    begin their deliberations on Friday afternoon. That’s all the time they
    need to come back with 1st degree!!!! “If it makes no sense, you MUST convict”.
    I think JM should repeat that over and over and over & over again in his closing!!!

  92. Marilyn N
    04/27/2013 at 12:51 pm

    PS: Wilnut does DUI cases……..

    • TexiBelle
      04/27/2013 at 7:10 pm

      I think he’d rather throw himself on the mercy of the court.

      • Family of Law
        04/27/2013 at 10:09 pm

        TexiBelle- that made me giggle!

  93. Douglme
    04/27/2013 at 12:51 pm

    Tracey A :
    Hey Missie! How are ya Mel??? So glad to see you….

    Went to bed earlier last night, missed all your replies. Thanks! Hope everyone is doing ok waiting for the trial to reconvene. I go through terrible withdrawals when there are so many days between testimony and now that we are so near the end it is even more difficult. Looking forward to hearing there is finally justice for Travis and his family.

  94. 04/27/2013 at 12:53 pm

    Allison :
    So – after Thursday’s short day – I re-watched the original ME testimony from way back – and then tried to find the testimony of Flores with Nurmi with and without the jury (where he is questioned about the sequence of events regarding the shooting taking place first or last and all that – BUT I still need help from you guys to understand . . . How did Flores think the shooting came first – if the ME report doesn’t say anything about a sequence? I am not knocking Flores or anything – I just wanted to get a bit clearer on this part.
    Also, I think because Jodi didn’t come clean with the story that she was there that day until 2010 (???) then was it that they (Flores) were already saying the shot came first and then Jodi just went with that story when she decided to say she was there???
    Thanks

    Yes….you almost have it pegged! What happened was Flores made a statement indicating that it was his understanding from his convsation with the ME that the shot came first. Now we know for a fact from JA’s own mouth that she has made up her stories in an attempt to match the forensics. She testified to that on the stand under JMs cross. When the ME was first on the stand under Nurm the Wurm he Said that he did not tell Flores the sequence of events at that time. So the wurm called Flores back up and asked him did he or did he not say the ME said the shot came first? Flores reiterated that after his conversation with the ME it was HIS understanding the shot came first and admitted that he made a mistake and misintrepted what was said. The Wurm tried to make Flores and/or the ME look like they were lying about the sequence of events. So bottom line it was their LYING LOSER of a client that when she first heard of Flores misinterpretation she took the statement and ran with it! She built her story around what Flores had said!! By the time the Wurm took over it was too late for her to change her story so they had to go with it. That’s why when the ME and Flores were back on the stand for rebuttal Willanurmi or the wurm (can’t remember now who did the cross at rebuttal!) tried to bring it all up again but it didn’t work and they got shot down with JM’s objections. Also you’ll remember The Wurm tried to file for a mistrial saying Flores lied when he said the ME said the shot came first. All this because JA pounced on that in order to save herself from the death penalty. The fact that the shot came last leads to the cruelty factor because he was still conscience when she inflicted all the stab wounds and cut to the throat. He was still alive!! That’s why it was important to the Duh-fence to have the shot come first and that’s the story JA had already made up.

    • Allison
      04/27/2013 at 2:36 pm

      🙂 Thanks so much. I love it when you smart people can explain things so well.
      Do you – by chance – know if Flores says anything to this – on the interrogation tapes???
      If so, might you (or someone out there) know which tape it could be in?? 🙂

      • Ci Ci's Circle
        04/27/2013 at 2:57 pm

        We don’t remember hearing the inference on the interrogation tapes, however, combining all of our memories we sometimes still can’t come up with one good memory! It’s hit and miss with us. Maybe someone else might remember something. We bow to the young here!

      • 04/27/2013 at 10:59 pm

        yes there is references to the shot coming first in the videos… Im’ thinking it must after the female detective (7) but right before the ninja story.. I will try to find a little more definitive info on it because Im reworking through those tapes making draft summaries… I’m on 7 at the moment

  95. Douglme
    04/27/2013 at 1:19 pm

    C.I. :
    Syn, I can – It was something that was very sacred and personal to him – she wanted to strip him of everything dignity, reputation his faith.
    I just had another sick thought -remember when she told Det. Flores, that she would beg for the death penalty if she was guilty because she did not want to spend the rest of her life in jail.
    What if she really meant she would beg for the death penalty because that way she would be with Travis sooner and it would be forever because they would both still be young and attractive when they died and be happily ever after…
    Oh god now I’m scaring myself here.

    Did the Jurors get to hear that part of the interrogation video when JA said she would beg for the death penalty if she had done anything to Travis? If so, I pray they oblige her!

    • 04/27/2013 at 11:01 pm

      not as yet. To my knowledge anyhow, I only remember them seeing the “no jury will convict me” documentary excerpt and snippets from the vids I don’t think included the DP statement. Maybe Juan is saving that for closing.

  96. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 2:22 pm

    This is a really fine article about BPD vs ASPD -P. I have continuously wondered ever since DeMarte 1st testified that her opinion is BPD, whether it would have been deemed too prejudicial to diagnose JA with anti social personality disorder — with all of it’s ensuing very negative (but truthful) connotations. In one of the many excellent comments at the end of this article by Dr Kristina Randle, this very issue is addressed by an attorney!

    ATTENTION SYN: One astute commentor was able to get a screen shot that shows all of 7 out of 10 Scales that are elevated!!! BINGO!

    Lisa K April 23, 2013 at 8:41 am
    I’ve been rewatching day 50 of the JA case. This video covers part 1 of the afternoon session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPEX7gHduxE
    At approx 22:00, you can see JA’s scores on the MMPI. She scored above the clinically significant level on depression, hysteria, psychopathic deviance, paranoia, psychasthenia, schizophrenia and hypomania (scales 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9). (NOTE: Those who do not have a psych background should not interpret the titles of the scales as diagnostic in themselves. JA doesn’t have schizophrenia.)

    JA scored highest on “Psychopathic Deviance”; her score exceeds 100. Her 2nd highest score is on paranoia, which is close to 100.

    Dr. KR, any thoughts? Maria makes an interesting point about how legal aspects of the case may limit Dr. DeMarte’s ability to fully describe her diagnosis. I’m in non-clinical psych research, so I know absolutely nothing about how to score and interpret the results of this complicated test. I would love to hear from clinical psychs about this.

    MUST READ: http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-does-jodi-arias-have-borderline-personality-disorder/#comment-1101

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      04/27/2013 at 3:09 pm

      Well this comment summed it up for us in terms we could understand clearly:

      Ria April 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm
      For those of us laypersons, with no knowledge of all these tests and scores, we refer to her as batsh!t crazy.

      Hah!

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 3:28 pm

        Don’t you love that comment! I sure do. 🙂

      • 04/27/2013 at 10:37 pm

        I don’t. It instills all the ignorance that we are trying to stamp out about this. That is my nightmarish comment.

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 3:32 pm

      TY TY TY for this link. Very well written and clearly stated.

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 3:36 pm

        Hi Robert! So glad that you agree that it’s very well stated. 🙂

    • 04/27/2013 at 11:05 pm

      Basically says what I have been saying.. with the glaring exception of PCL-R. But that’s no surprising. BPD is partial diagnosis… ASPD is partial diagnosis… ASPD + P is full diagnosis but does not fall under the DSM.

      • 04/27/2013 at 11:10 pm

        As I said to someone recently.. because DeMarte is recently out of studying she went with BPD. That’s what this article suggests also. As I said before.. it’s disappointing but not surprising.

        Those who have followed my postings regarding this over the last month(s) understand my sentiments regarding this situation.

      • NancyB
        04/28/2013 at 3:27 am

        Exactly, Syn – it does. 🙂

  97. JesusFreak
    04/27/2013 at 3:15 pm

    i am behind on reading so if this has been suggested please forgive me.
    I think the camera was dangling from her right wrist the whole time. we have trouble thinking this because she, the liar pants on fire (from lies and otherwise), said ta got mad when she dropped the camera. another big lie. she did not drop the camera. IMHO.

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 3:41 pm

      I think we are in the minority, but I agree with you.. I dont think a camera would be snapping pictures while on the floor but rather when dangling.

      • 04/27/2013 at 9:43 pm

        since realising where the throat slitting pic was taken, I am disinclined to think the last two shots were camera dragged or kicked shots also.. but I am having trouble understanding the angle.

        He crawled to that place.. that’s why I’m having trouble now with the cam on the floor then… cant get my head around how the cam got out of the bathroom to that hallway if it was on the floor.. the first 2 inadvertents… the torso and the ceiling indicate to me strap … Chrissie thinks the strap could have then got tangled somehow then dragged to the bedroom Im having a bit of trouble with that theory at the moment.. Im more thinking it was on her still… but then the angle of the shot in relation to her foot and leg… makes no sense to me either and thats where Chrissie points out on the floor.. but then that is not the way the shot was it was upside down… I dunno… I just cant get that one clear in my head at the moment

  98. JesusFreak
    04/27/2013 at 3:20 pm

    I think Jodi said the gunshot was first because Mr Flores told her it was first. She had to go with the ‘facts’ and he really sewed her up with that one!

  99. JesusFreak
    04/27/2013 at 3:34 pm

    JesusFreak :
    I think Jodi said the gunshot was first because Mr Flores told her it was first. She had to go with the ‘facts’ and he really sewed her up with that one!

    just found your reply, cici’s circle, about this same idea. as usual i am a day late and a dollar short. that is why i try to just read and not text. my life keeps me behind and reading to catch up. I love everyone’s texts! keep them coming.

  100. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 3:35 pm

    Moon :
    just heading off to la-la land but hope you all will smile a bit remembering this one!
    http://teensleuth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/21872239_bg1.jpg

    Hi Moon! I was so glad that you posted this article on La La which I’ve enjoyed reading a few different times since Jim 1st posted this gem!!!

  101. Janna
    04/27/2013 at 3:41 pm

    All in favor of adding “Batshit Crazy” to the next DSM update – flap your arms and bare your Dracula fangs.

    LMAO

    • NancyB
      04/27/2013 at 7:12 pm

      Janna – Best laugh I’ve had today! Mucho gracias 🙂

    • 04/27/2013 at 9:36 pm

      she isn’t crazy.

  102. Allison
    04/27/2013 at 3:47 pm

    I am thinking, now, that I kinda wish this trial would have been taped by the TV cameras, but NOT shown LIVE – but shown after the trial was over and sentencing was done. I am thinking all this TV focus and blogs and such has turned it into too much of a circus and the defense is able to make too many “circus”-type claims (ie: mistrials, prosecutorial misconduct, etc.). Don’t get me wrong . . . I am enthralled with the trial everyday – but I just don’t want anything weird to happen because so many of us have been such a BIG part of watching the trial. I want JUSTICE for TRAVIS and I hope we haven’t ruined things for him. Ya’ know???

  103. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 3:49 pm

    NancyB :
    Hi Robert! So glad that you agree that it’s very well stated. ,

    Wasn’t Dr Randle the site that had the picture overlaps? The display of each side of the face mirrored? I found that so dang interesting, The description of the last photo of him alive with that process was chilling to read. A combo of confusion & wonder and terror as I reacll.
    Anyway if it wasn’t her, it was someone as good!

  104. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 3:54 pm

    from the artcle linked above, a samplingthe room might like; from an attorney:

    During her contrived display of special skill cross-examining forensic psychologists, she shrieked something to the effect of “and you know that defense expert Dr. Dick Samuels diagnosed Ms. Arias with Personality Disorder Not Otherwise Specified, Right? Not Borderline! Right?” (How’s THAT Dr. De Marte!!!?) Yes, that’s true, Dr. De Marte admitted.

    I need to laugh again for just one moment….

    Not only did the defense attorney expose a fact that is highly prejudicial to Jodi but its obvious everyone had agreed not to mention this before.

    • 04/27/2013 at 9:50 pm

      NOS because he thought “rut roh she’s a sociopath (ASPD) can’t have that.. no more investigation needed there!” .. and stopped going down that path… obviously!

  105. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/27/2013 at 4:06 pm

    a snippet from Dr Randle site:

    “As you do your research into antisocial personality disorder, please recognize that persons with this disorder do not always turn to a life of crime and do not always end up in prison. You will find confirmation of the fact that they sometimes become very successful businessman and women. Having no conscience, having no hesitation to lie and having no reluctance to harm others, can be a great asset to the success of a business man or woman.”

    I can think of a few other professions as well as a few laboring jobs–like waitress!

    • 04/27/2013 at 9:33 pm

      they mainly go for power tho. It’s easier to operate as an ASPD or ASPD+P within corporation because the corporation itself fits the P profile perfectly by definition.

      (see you tube video where Dr Robert Hare steps through this explanation)

  106. Carmen
    04/27/2013 at 4:41 pm

    Hello everyone. Please forgive me if someone already posted this article. It’s fascinating. Juan Martinez was the prosecutor in this case. I recently watched a documentary about it. There are a lot of similarities between the defendant in this case and Wobo

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    Print This Email This Most Popular Subscribe to The Republic

    Deciding life, death takes toll on jurors
    Jim Walsh
    The Arizona Republic
    Jan. 24, 2005 12:00 AM
    One juror felt his knees shaking as he sat down to decide if an Ahwatukee Foothills woman should live or die.

    Another says she spent the evening before the death penalty deliberations eating saltines and vomiting.

    A third says she flashes back to the case, which featured a murder inside an apartment, every time she drives past an apartment complex.
    advertisement

    Such is the emotional cost of Arizona’s 2 1/2-year-old death penalty law under which ordinary people – jurors, not judges – make the toughest decision in the law, life or death, a choice no one would voluntarily make.

    Since Arizona revamped its law because of a landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling that juries must determine mitigating factors in death penalty cases, Maricopa County juries are voting for death far more often than their peers in four other states affected by the ruling. They are also dishing out death sentences more often than judges did in the past.

    Including the jury in the Ahwatukee case, the trial of Wendi Andriano, Valley juries have voted the death penalty for 14 of 18 defendants since Aug. 1, 2002.

    That 78 percent rate contrasts sharply with the sentences of Maricopa County Superior Court judges, who imposed death in 15 percent of cases from 1995 to 1999, according to 2002 report by the state Capital Case Commission.

    While Arizona legal experts say it still may be premature to determine how the change is working, jurors in the Andriano case told The Arizona Republic that they believe juries should make the choice, even though they felt enormous pressure and anguished over their death penalty verdict.

    ‘This is your duty’

    In all, 15 jurors in Maricopa County Superior Court in Mesa spent four months hearing the case against Andriano, 34, who was charged with killing her terminally ill husband, Joe, 33. He was poisoned, bludgeoned and stabbed in their apartment Oct. 8, 2000, while their children, then 2 and 3, slept in a bedroom.

    Six of the 12 jurors who voted last month to execute Andriano were interviewed, along with two of the three alternates.

    “The first couple of weeks, it was kind of interesting,” said juror Tanner Catalano, 27, of Gilbert.

    “After it started to set in that you had to make a decision like this, it became overwhelmingly stressful.”

    Catalano and some of his peers on the jury argued that it is fairer for 12 everyday people to decide a death sentence than one judge. “A lot of things in life are hard. This is your duty,” he said.

    Catalano played ice hockey to relieve the tension but said a rule that bars jurors from discussing a case with others forced him to keep his emotions private.

    “I’d walk around in a daze and people would say, ‘What’s wrong with you?’ You can’t tell them why,” he said.

    The jury found Andriano guilty Nov. 18, about 15 minutes after they went into the jury room, said juror Jay Erke, 48, an airline mechanic foreman from Mesa.

    Juror Linda Percy, 63, a Realtor from Mesa, said jurors didn’t believe Andriano’s testimony, given over nine days on the stand, that she poisoned her husband as part of a suicide pact, and that she hit him 23 times in the head with a bar stool in self-defense to stop him from reaching for a knife.

    “The defense didn’t have a lot of evidence, period,” Percy said. “I don’t think the defense had a lot to work with.”

    But the decision to execute Andriano was far more difficult, she and the five other jurors all said.

    Reaching guilty verdict

    After they reached the guilty verdict, jurors heard a week of testimony on why Andriano should be executed, the aggravating factors that go into a death penalty decision.

    They deliberated for four hours before finding the slaying was especially cruel, qualifying her for the death sentence.

    They then heard six days of testimony on mitigating factors, reasons her life should be spared.

    They gathered in the jury room Dec. 16 to consider whether there were reasons for sparing Andriano’s life.

    It took four days.

    The sometimes-heated deliberations dramatically changed the case’s outcome, with a split jury gradually shifting toward the death verdict.

    When the deliberations began, the nine women and three men took a vote. Only three supported a death sentence, with four favoring a life sentence and the others undecided, said juror Mary Fobes, 74, of Mesa.

    Catalano said he wasn’t sure.

    “I still hadn’t made up my mind. I was giving her the benefit of the doubt,” he said.

    After one day, the jury went home for a three-day weekend that some called full of soul searching.

    When they reconvened, Catalano gave a pivotal speech outlining his reasons for supporting a death sentence, and the vote swung to 11-1 in favor of execution, Fobes said.

    “It was very passionate on why he thought she deserved the death penalty,” Fobes said. “The more I thought about it, how could she be so brutal? She must have totally flipped her wig. I don’t know how anyone could do that.”

    But the jury was on the verge of a deadlock, with one holdout, a senior citizen from Gilbert, saying he was adamantly against the death penalty.

    On the third day of deliberations, jurors took turns discussing each of 23 reasons listed by the defense for sparing Andriano’s life, the mitigating factors, weighing whether they were sufficient cause for leniency.

    They included that Andriano was a good mother to her children and had signed up at age 19 for missionary work when in Mexicali, Mexico, for the 91st Psalm Church, now the Harvest Family Church in Casa Grande.

    Catalano said he gave all the mitigating factors some weight, but in the end, they were not enough.

    “Does a good mother brutally murder her husband?” he said.

    Percy said she also considered the arguments against execution, but on balance, “we could not find mitigating factors that overwhelmed the cruelty. To me, to everybody there, the knife wound was the crowning blow. She had three chances to back off.”

    While jurors were discussing whether to execute Andriano, they considered that they would have no control over whether the trial judge, Brian Ishikawa, would give her life in prison with or without parole, she said.

    Jurors did not want to see a 25 years to life sentence.

    “We also knew with the death penalty that she has an automatic appeal,” Percy said.

    Different parts of the case resonated with jurors. Some said they were moved by Andriano’s plea for life during the mitigation phase on Dec. 16, just before the final deliberations, while others considered it an Academy Award acting job.

    “I just thought, ‘What an act you’re putting on, honey,’ ” Fobes said. “She was such a liar. How could you believe anything she told you?”

    The emotional impact of Andriano’s 45-minute plea, in which she admitting making “a horrible choice that night” but insisted her cancer-stricken husband wanted to commit suicide, may have waned as days passed and jurors focused on the details of the case, Fobes said.

    Erke was moved.

    “Her speech was heartfelt. It teared me up,” he said. But “I thought she was more sorry for the consequences of what she did than for the actions.”

    Others cited a videotape recording of the police interview with Andriano, only a few hours after the murder, as among the most incriminating evidence. The tape showed a relaxed Andriano talking to a Phoenix police detective, casually holding her knees against her chest.

    “I can’t imagine being so calm and collected and having no emotions,” Percy said. “She never cried, she never asked about her kids, she seemed flirtatious.”

    Manipulation

    As the third day of deliberations ended, Fobes said she told the holdout juror, a Gilbert senior citizen, “Wendi has manipulated you. He said, ‘Yes, I know.’ ”

    The next day, the holdout gave a short speech saying he changed his mind. He declined two requests for an interview.

    The jury delivered the death penalty verdict Dec. 22.

    “Walking in there with that verdict, I was shaking like a leaf,” Erke said, the daunting power of deciding if someone lives or dies overwhelming him. “It’s ‘Oh, my God, it’s really happened.’ ”

    Most are still mulling over their decision, but only one juror, a young nurse, expressed doubts.

    “Sometimes, I think I’m too hard-hearted,” Fobes said. “But she didn’t feel any sympathy for him (the husband).”

    Percy said a telling look from Andriano was reassuring after a clerk read the verdict.

    “She gave us a look like, ‘How dare you?’ ” Percy said. “I thought, ‘I made the right decision.’ ”

    Reach the reporter at jim.walsh@arizonarepublic.com.

    • 04/27/2013 at 9:55 pm

      Interesting post Carment, Normally I’m anti DP vehemently.. but in Jodistein’s case I’d d what’s necessary without compunction.

      She showed no mercy at all to a totally defenseless man who had only ever been kind to her despite her disgusting behaviour towards him. She deserves no mercy.

      • Carmen
        04/28/2013 at 2:11 pm

        I generally don’t agree with the death penalty but there are crimes that are so heinous that its warranted. In this case, jodi admitted to killing Travis and it was a horrific crime. Poor Travis suffered immensely. He was butchered and then murdered again by the defense.

  107. Carmen
    04/27/2013 at 4:42 pm

    I’m so sorry about all the stuff in front of the article. 😦

    • 04/27/2013 at 6:59 pm

      Thanks for posting it Carmen! We r all getting the hang of posting, scrolling….

      • Carmen
        04/27/2013 at 8:22 pm

        Thanks for your understanding Lisa. Sometimes I don’t post because I’m afraid of making mistakes.

    • 04/27/2013 at 7:02 pm

      P.s.- there,s another woman on death row-convicted of having her 3 yr old murdered. If u look up as death row, she will pop up.

      • Carmen
        04/27/2013 at 8:29 pm

        I’ll check it out.! Crimes against children are the most heinous and are the most upsetting to me. We’re supposed to protect children. I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that people can be capable of murdering innocent kids. I would gladly flip the switch or put the needle in their arm.

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 6:46 pm

      Thanks for this, I had not seen samples and I refused to go to her site. Notice that her drawing of Doc Janeen made her look not as attractive as she was? And the one with her thinking ‘why does Martinex get all the good witnesses’ made my head spin.

  108. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 5:41 pm

    Hey all I’m re-watching the police interrogation tapes by David Lohr on Youtube (there are 16 of them) – this is the most silent we have ever seen Jodistein. It is like she is trying to think of something to save her ass. Check it out she asks to see the photos at least 24+ times. God the more I watch the more i want to slap her.

  109. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 6:22 pm

    Here is the link to the first tape, if you re interested, then you can just click on the next ones

  110. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 6:26 pm

    oops thought it would just post the link – Well go to Youtube and type in Jodi Arias Unedited Police Video – Im watching the ones by David Lohr

  111. C.I.
    04/27/2013 at 6:28 pm

    Sorry all type in “Jodi Arias Unedited Police Interrogation Video”

    • 04/27/2013 at 9:22 pm

      most of us have watched them CI they are very important in understanding the full picture

      • 04/27/2013 at 9:26 pm

        and you are so right.. up until Flores gives her the ‘in’ for her ninja story… all of it ALL of it is delay tactics and trying to see the pics for one reason and one reason only.. the whole time she is trying to hit on another story because she knows she can’t say.. “oh no I did it in cold blood cos he didn’t want me.”

        The only times she shows emotion is for herself because she isn’t been given the information to enable her to create her story.

  112. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 6:44 pm
    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 6:59 pm

      Well, I’ll hand it to the new homeowners, they didn’t let anything get in the way of creating a home. In addition, they have kind words for the spirit of Travis. How they withstand people stopping by and gawking eludes me. How they could walk the BR hallway without thinking of what happened there also eludes me. Then again, I don’t quite understand how people can drive Elm Street in Dallas and ride over the spot JFK was killed without thinking about it.
      Me? I dont think I could live there, and I think I’d find an alternate route for everyday driving in Dallas. But, the world needs – and has – all kind of folks.And we can’t always be choosey about the spaces or roads we have to inhabit.

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/27/2013 at 7:06 pm

        as a side note: the house on Bundy where OJ killed Nicole and Ron Goldman has been torn down. So has the house on Rockingham that Simpson lived in.

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 7:24 pm

        “How they withstand people stopping by and gawking eludes me. How they could walk the BR hallway without thinking of what happened there also eludes me.”

        Ditto that! But, I know that KatieCoolady took Samantha past the house because she had never seen it. One of the kids that lives there came out and was so nice and then the mother (homeowner) also came out and KatieCool said that it was a very healing experience for Samantha. Also, KatieCoolady has never written about ANY private family info without their expressed permission. She is an unsung HERO, in my book.

      • Jim
        04/27/2013 at 8:05 pm

        Hi Robert – I used to live in Dallas, and I would go out of my way to avoid Dealy Plaza – seems like sacred ground to me, so I understand where you’re coming from…

        I remember seeing an interview with one of TA’s neighbors, and the neighbor saying that the new owners were not told of it being a murder scene prior to their purchase – it just looked like a foreclosed fixer-upper with all the missing drywall and carpet… Finding out about what went on there must have been disconcerting, to say the least…

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 8:40 pm

        I forgot to say that the homeowner is an amazing lady! Think about it. She didn’t even know what went on there at the time of purchase. (laws in Ohio where I used to live mandate disclosure – don’t know about Ca where I now live) She was beyond gracious to Samantha. Then she gets Det Flores call about Travis closet. What a sweetheart! she had to empty out the entire closet so Det Flores could take those all important pictures proving JA lied AGAIN to the jury. She did not have to agree to all of that! I’m enormously grateful to her for that.

  113. NancyB
    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/27/2013 at 7:03 pm

      Loved this comment:

      “Jodi is enough to drive anyone to drink. What that jury has been through with all the stupid defense witnesses, all the butt dragging the defense has done, and the fact that the judge cannot run a decent court since all she does is cater to the defense, I’m surprised ALL the jurors don’t drink”.

      • 04/27/2013 at 7:14 pm

        Amen to that Robert!

      • NancyB
        04/27/2013 at 8:41 pm

        True dat!

  114. Jay
    04/27/2013 at 8:19 pm

    Mike Daniels has a new YouTube video
    I can’t link to it from my iPad YouTube app …
    Rejected Juror Questions is the topic

    • NancyB
      04/27/2013 at 10:05 pm

      Thanks Jay – I enjoy all of his stuff!

  115. 04/27/2013 at 8:36 pm

    Hi everyone. I was searching for the address to send a donation to the Alexander family. In the process, I found the site with Travis’ obituary, on Legacy.com. I began reading the postings, there are hundreds. I started reading the oldest first, and I just couldn’t stop and found myself becoming very sad. In the very early posts, you could sense the confusion & pain his friends & famly were feeling. And, there’s a sad & lovely post by his grandmother who raised him. I continued reading the stories from friends, business acquintances, so MANY people who were left inspired by this young man, with stories of his kindness & generosity and just plain goodness And, I can’t help but think of the cruel & awful hand of fate dealt to him. The life of a young man with so much to give and so much more living to do was taken away by a lazy, manipulative opportunist with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to give. I hope and pray that the jury gets it right in this case so that his soul can finally rest in peace, that his loved ones can begin to smile again, and that the piece of shit gets what she deserves ! So sorry for the rambling, I needed to vent and I feel that I can do it here. But, if you get the chance, please read the beautiful posts on his obituary guest book. I think you will be equally touched. Have a good nite all, and thanks for letting me ramble.

    • Jill
      04/27/2013 at 10:21 pm

      I will go see it. Ty. It will be very hard to read the comments by people who loved travis. Especially, his grandma who has since passed away.

      Vent all u want. That’s what is so nice about this site…we all feel the same way…

      I’m so sad the jury can’t see everything we do (interrogation tapes, travis’ friends talking about him, pictures and videos of him in happy times, the full video of him telling his near death experience, 48 hrs interview, stories of Jodi’s crazy behavior as told by travis’ friends, her admission of kicking her dog (a true sign of a psychopath and abuser and killer) and it “disappearing” after that, etc etc)

  116. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 8:44 pm

    njrose – I could not say it better. The Legacy site grips my heart big time. In early March I spent a few hour there reading everything. It truly is an amazing tribute to him. Thanks for the reminder!

  117. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 8:45 pm

    njrose – I forget to ask you if you liked all the flower (icons) as much as I did?

    • 04/27/2013 at 10:26 pm

      Nancy, I do love flowers ! And, butterflies, and hearts and peace signs …. I’m an “old flower child” from way back, LOL.

  118. 04/27/2013 at 9:15 pm

    C.I. :

    Syn any thoughts. Maybe I now need therapy just trying to understand her and how she thinks – is it even possible to figure her out.

    Yes it’ possible to figure her out, I see her clearly .. but it’s taken years and years of study so I’m not suggesting it. You ‘just’ gotta rewrite everything in your head that you believe about ‘human’ nature because these types are doppelgangers…. not real humans!

  119. 04/27/2013 at 9:36 pm

    Carmen :
    Thanks for your understanding Lisa. Sometimes I don’t post because I’m afraid of making mistakes.

    No worries Carmen. We all make mistakes-here on the blog and elsewhere. Post away and enjoy the exchange. We are all tying to figure it out. Express yourself as you see fit and don’t worry about any posting errors.

  120. 04/27/2013 at 9:52 pm

    Carmen :
    I’ll check it out.! Crimes against children are the most heinous and are the most upsetting to me. We’re supposed to protect children. I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that people can be capable of murdering innocent kids. I would gladly flip the switch or put the needle in their arm.

    Her name is Debra Milke. She has been on death row for 22 yrs and her case recently was overturned.

    • Carmen
      04/28/2013 at 7:42 am

      I read about her last night. Poor little boy. I’m shocked the prosecutor would have a detective with a history of lying on the stand testify. He should have known better.

  121. 04/27/2013 at 9:55 pm

    Jay :
    Mike Daniels has a new YouTube video

    I can’t link to it from my iPad YouTube app …
    Rejected Juror Questions is the topic

    Thanks for posting Jay. He is always entertaining- good comic relief.

  122. 04/27/2013 at 9:57 pm

    NancyB :
    I forgot to say that the homeowner is an amazing lady! Think about it. She didn’t even know what went on there at the time of purchase. (laws in Ohio where I used to live mandate disclosure – don’t know about Ca where I now live) She was beyond gracious to Samantha.
    Then she gets Det Flores call about Travis closet. What a sweetheart! she had to empty out the entire closet so Det Flores could take those all important pictures proving JA lied AGAIN to the jury. She did not have to agree to all of that! I’m enormously grateful to her for that.

    Disclosure is a mandate in CA. I was wondering how she was unaware?

    • NancyB
      04/27/2013 at 10:08 pm

      Hi Lisa – is disclosure mandated in AZ? You don’t even have to register guns there so who knows?

  123. kCruz123
    04/27/2013 at 10:05 pm

    I’m confused. Did the judge order that there will be no court days that extend past 4:30 or is it just that court has ended prior to 4:30 since Nurmi tried to make the demand?

  124. NancyB
    04/27/2013 at 10:11 pm

    Hi kCruz! The later. Since Nurmi demanded 4;30 PM as the drop dead date court has never extended a minute past. But for this Wed the judge stated that court will start at 9 and go until the defense completes their sur-rebuttal even if it’s past 4:30PM

  125. kCruz123
    04/27/2013 at 10:20 pm

    NancyB, I meant to post this earlier when you commented on the new owner of Travis’ home. She does sound like a kind person with a lovely spirit. She’s opened her home to help his family gain closure and allow the court to do follow-up testing. Despite the fact that there was no disclosure about Travis and this case before she purchased his home she said that she’s always felt safe and happy in her new home.
    I can see by your posts that you read about the case from numerous sources and I think that’s great.

  126. 04/27/2013 at 10:23 pm

    NancyB :
    Hi Lisa – is disclosure mandated in AZ? You don’t even have to register guns there so who knows?

    Property defects but not if a death occurred in the home which includes natural causes, suicide, and murder. Combslawgroup.com/Arizona
    States sellers and realtors r not legally responsible for such disclosure.
    Site goes not state that police and neighbors can be helpful…amazing!

  127. 04/27/2013 at 10:25 pm

    Lisa :

    NancyB :

    Hi Lisa – is disclosure mandated in AZ? You don’t even have to register guns there so who knows?

    Property defects but not if a death occurred in the home which includes natural causes, suicide, and murder. Combslawgroup.com/Arizona
    States sellers and realtors r not legally responsible for such disclosure.
    Site goes not state that police and neighbors can be helpful…amazing!

    Hi Nancy- I hope this was helpful. Sorry I can’t provide a hyperlink.

    • NancyB
      04/28/2013 at 3:37 am

      Hi Lisa! Very helpful – thanks. 🙂

  128. 04/27/2013 at 11:00 pm

    Oops posted this on an old page, so here ’tis again, new road sign for those murderers not as smart as Stabby

    • 04/28/2013 at 4:35 am

      LOL!! OMG I saw this the other day and couldnt work out how to post it in here! So glad you found it too Essem!!!

    • Chrissie A
      04/28/2013 at 5:38 am

      LOL!!!! Very Clever!! Tx Essem 😛

  129. 04/27/2013 at 11:44 pm

    Family of Law :
    Syn, you just provided a “courtesy flush”.

    Ahh so like I did at the top of this page.. maybe my ‘flushes’ are too subtle! Maybe I need to stop using the partial and go for the full side.

  130. 04/27/2013 at 11:54 pm

    wow Im watching interrogation video (8) 21:52 Jodi is the closest to breaking she gets I think.. and it’s the female detective that so nearly gets her. Jodi rattles off all the great things Travis did for her and at least twice through it Jodi has said “I think I’m selfish” whoa!!! That’s the closest she gets to admitting what she really is.. and she is emotional at the time.

    The ONLY time you get truth from these people is 1) on the rare occasions you can link into any true emotion (other than anger) or 2) reach it appealing to their narcissistic side

    • 04/28/2013 at 12:06 am

      soz starts around 20:09 ish

  131. NancyB
    04/28/2013 at 12:31 am

    Syn did you see the link I posted for you?

    • 04/28/2013 at 12:45 am

      The Randle one?

      • NancyB
        04/28/2013 at 12:52 am

        No – It discusses many things you’ve wondered about – there are parts of it about the camera cards that I don’t totally understand. It’s a long article but pls read it.

        http://blinkoncrime.com/category/travis-alexander/jodi-arias/

      • 04/28/2013 at 1:02 am

        ok thankyou!!!! I will read it I luv you by the way!! 😀

  132. jad
    04/28/2013 at 12:49 am

    Jim posted directions to a site [at # 543, on yesterday’s page] that addressed Alyce LaViolette. That article was a snarky read. Besides Chrissie A and Syntara (yesterday), NancyB and Moon [above posts, today] enjoyed the read too. So, it seems that some of you might enjoy a couple more posts directing you to the site to read other articles by the same author.

    WhereIsSHE might know the author. At least they are from the same neck of the woods and could run in the same circles. Reading the background of (the author) Kara Vallow, it was discovered this [self-described snarky] creative writer, who produces Family Guy, American Dad, and The Cleveland Show (for the Sunday night line-up on FOX) and who had been involved with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (“TMNT”) and Johnny Bravo (Saturday morning staples for young boys in the [late 1980s for TMNT and] mid-1990s [and beyond]), is from Philadelphia.

    She is amazingly witty. Some of you have probably already read a few of Kara Vallow’s articles, when keeping up with the Casey Anthony case (a few years ago). One of the two sites posted contains an article written at that time about that particular case. In spite of the application of the article for that case, it really applies to this case, too. The article was the author’s [KARA’s] take on an expert witness for the defense (except instead of being paid exorbitant sums of money taken from the treasury of the State of Arizona, the bundle-of-cash was lifted from the treasury of the State of Florida). The description of one of the expert witnesses for the defense in the Casey Marie Anthony farcical coverage of a Criminal Trial (in the American system of Jurisprudence) is relevant to those feeling the pain of this Criminal Trial — that the criminal lawyers have dragged out against the taxpayers of the State of Arizona, in their manufactured defense of Jodi Ann Arias. The so-called expert in that Florida case, a Doctor Sally Karioth, must have believed she testified for the benefit of whom she thought were her employers (although it was [NOT the criminal lawyers, but] the people of the State of Florida that covered ALL expenses of those providing testimony as well as those providing testiphony).

    The prosecutor in this Arizona case has acted in a comparable manner to the prosecutor (Jeff Ashton) in that Florida case. So, when (Deputy District Attorney) Juan Martinez got exasperated with Doctor Richard Samuels reading his Curriculum Vitae [as though he would not be able to remember his own credentials], (Assistant State Attorney) Jeff Ashton came to mind. When the Arizona prosecutor questioned how in the world the social worker (LaViolette) had become an expert, who unexplainably could include every benefit to Jodi Arias, the same relatable complications experienced by the Florida prosecutor came to mind. To quote (KARA) the author of the article, written June 30, 2011, titled Defense Witness of the Week, “She was gut-bustingly hilarious rattling off an exhaustive list of credentials”. Read it, by linking to http://teensleuth.com/blog/?p=6255

    There have been many comments about the ridiculous portrayal of Jodi Arias as a victim (of a diminutive stature), as she sits in her wrenched-down seat at the defense table (busily entertaining herself). This portrayal had to be orchestrated by her criminal lawyers. It is a horrid display. At least, in the Florida case, [criminal lawyer] Jose Baez knew how to dress his client to fit into the picture he painted. He kept her hair off her face, and, other than one misstep with dark colored clothing, he kept his client mainly in pastels (and in the correct size). He had brightened up his client’s wardrobe, and he made sure the Jurors could look at her AND SEE HER. She did not have hair all over her face. (His prior experience in the bikini business must have made him familiar with a look that worked, that would make his young client [Casey Anthony] have a certain attractive sensuality while [at the same time] appearing demure and innocent — to the JURORS.) This type of attention to detail was not done with Jodi Arias. However (as with their other lapses of judgment), the criminal lawyers did not intentionally improperly dress their client (since their client mimicked the style of the female criminal lawyer, WillNot, who did not seem to dislike her own method). They just had bad taste, as was featured in one of the articles. This article, written by KARA on March 4, 2013, titled Makeover from HELL, is at http://teensleuth.com/blog/?p=18088

    • NancyB
      04/28/2013 at 3:47 am

      Hi JAD! Thank-you so much for all this info! She is extremely talented- wow – what a resume! You continue to out do yourself. I enjoy your comments so very much. 🙂

  133. jad
    04/28/2013 at 12:55 am

    Jim posted as # 543 at 1:21 P.M. on 04/26/13 [on yesterday’s page], when leaving a comment about an April 11, 2013 article, titled I Watched Alyce LaViolette’s Stupid Snow White Talk So You Don’t Have To. The place to locate this article is http://teensleuth.com/blog/?p=19073

  134. 04/28/2013 at 12:56 am

    😢 I’m in moderation 😩

    • Tracey A
      04/28/2013 at 1:37 am

      GF!!!! Where have you been!!!!

      • 04/28/2013 at 2:08 am

        Hey Tracey, been in and out watching putting in a few posts. I found a Twitter pic that I posted by mistake on an old page Day 52 pt 2 that was still open to post which was odd and then I realized old page so reposted here but it’s in moderation. Weird bc it posted on the old page. Just been reading posts from the dark side. They call Dr DeMarte “Tot Doc” and are confident this new witness, coupled with the combined experience of Dr Sleaze and Ms Loo Do with over 100 years experience compared to Dr DeM ‘s 3 years will clarify things with the jury. DELUSIONAL Hey saw your “cheeky” pic, kinda cute 😉

      • NancyB
        04/28/2013 at 3:53 am

        Essem, love that twitter pic!!

  135. C.I.
    04/28/2013 at 1:16 am

    I just finished watch all of David Lohrs Tapes (18 of them – i know I said 16 oops) She couldn’t even give the family closure – nothing. Just kept trying to think of things to save herself is what it looks like – High IQ my arse.

    • Jill
      04/28/2013 at 1:24 am

      Hi CI, I’m in the midst of watching them now. I can’t understand why the jury can’t see them! I can’t believe this is real. The jury needs to see these so bad to see how psycho she really is.

  136. C.I.
    04/28/2013 at 2:18 am

    Hi Jill – from what I understand (and i may be wrong – not a lawyer) this is all discussed at an evidentiary hearing and anything that is too prejudicial to the defendant is not admitted. Legal beagles here can you help explain this?

    • Jill
      04/28/2013 at 2:31 am

      Yes, I always hear about that issue of “too prejudicial”. I know I am not knowledgable about the law at all, but it sure seems fair that anything that came out of someone’s own mouth should not be considered prejudicial.

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:04 pm

        I agree.. surely that’s covered in the US miranda rights?

        (paraphrasing) “you have the right to remain silent. You do not have to say anything, anything you do say can and will be used against you in a court of law.”

      • Jill
        04/28/2013 at 1:47 pm

        You’re exactly right, syn! That’s what the Miranda rights state!!!!!

  137. 04/28/2013 at 2:23 am

    Question for legal experts. In closing arguments, can the opposing parties object to what is being said? I’m assuming they can only bring up things that have been testified to in court but, as 99% of the State’s case is prejudicial to the defense then will Nurmott be calling out objection every second word? I hope not so Juan can present an uninterrupted synopsis of the case, including photographs, for the jury to hear/see without distractions. Of course it goes both ways but I don’t have any problems with what the defense have to say as it has already been proven to be based on lies and bias.

    • TexiBelle
      04/28/2013 at 8:27 am

      I heard Beth Karas say that objections can be made if one side is presented something as fact that was not established as fact during trial. Like when Walking Idiot was cross-examining (I think) the ME and used phrases like “so when TA lunged at her…” and JM would object saying that was just a claim by the defendant, no evidence it actually happened. There may be more possible objections, but that was the only one Beth Karas mentioned.

  138. 04/28/2013 at 3:43 am

    Re: the recording of the sex.

    Let me tell you this much. She would NOT have rocked up with that on the day of the murder. She would have been on her best behaviour.. the butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth … I’m so sorry… I’ll change.. please take me back, please give me another chance. I love you Travis, I can’t live without you Travis….

    It’s NOT the “if you don’t do what I say Travis I’m gonna play this recording.” mode. Why on earth would she do that when he has told her to get out of his life already? What on earth would she gain by that?????? It makes absolutely no sense. She is a master manipulator.

    Outing herself for recording that and threatening him would NOT, manipulate him into forgiving her, it would just make him angrier. It makes NO sense either in the way her mind works or the way she manipulates.

    • Jim
      04/28/2013 at 3:51 am

      Syn – do you think that money might have been an “in” that she also tried to use? Travis needed money, and Jodi rarely had any, I just wonder if a long awaited check for a car payment might be part of her strategy?

      • 04/28/2013 at 3:52 am

        yeah yeah yeah.. she rocked up with that check as a peace offering.. that is way more what she would have rocked up with than a tape to make him angry and blackmailing him.

      • Tracey A
        04/28/2013 at 3:56 am

        Whoa! Great point. That could be very telling! Wow! Pondering this train of thought…

        I think Syn is right on this, as usual, …..

    • 04/28/2013 at 3:51 am

      Plus .. if she had just blackmailed him with that sex recording he didn’t even know she had made… do you really think he would have done those shower poses for her? Come on! He was not comfortable allowing anyone in there when he showered anyhow… she even said “Oh Travis wouldn’t go for that” when Det Flores first mentioned they had the photos of him in the shower.

      No, she had been on her VERY best behaviour that day. Not threatening him with a recording to blackmail him.

    • Jill
      04/28/2013 at 1:54 pm

      I agree. I don’t think the sex recording played into the day he died at all.
      However, I do think she used it weeks(or months?I’m not sure of the dates of the recording) before to show that she has something over on him. I really believe that this is part of what opened his eyes to the monster she really is.

  139. Tracey A
    04/28/2013 at 3:45 am

    Syn – I agree but you have to translate “butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth” huh? Never heard that one before…we might have a different spin on that take…please clarify. Humbly..

    • 04/28/2013 at 3:47 am

      hahah Trace…. “butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth” is an Aussie saying.. it means she’d be acting all perfect.

      • Tracey A
        04/28/2013 at 3:50 am

        Wow..my take would’ve been in a completely different direction. Clarified! WTG! I get what you are saying now, wholly!

      • Chrissie A
        04/28/2013 at 4:38 am

        Butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth is Brit speak 😛

      • 04/28/2013 at 4:40 am

        omfg!!! get to bed would ya! Bloody poms!

      • Chrissie A
        04/28/2013 at 4:49 am

        Having too much fun to do that! Sheesh Bleedin’ Ockers!

      • 04/28/2013 at 4:51 am

        LOL!!! If ya think thats insulting… its NOT!

      • Chrissie A
        04/28/2013 at 4:53 am

        Wasn’t meant to be 😦

    • 04/28/2013 at 3:59 am

      We have our own language here 😉

      • 04/28/2013 at 4:14 am

        yeah essem.. I forget we need to educate these yanks .. didn’t even realise they didn’t say that over there

      • 04/28/2013 at 9:34 am

        This Yankee and her frieds have been known to say
        “Butter WOULD melt in her mouth” . Meaning she would be acting sweet and demure.

      • 04/28/2013 at 9:55 am

        ours is same meaning but WOULDN’T melt

      • 04/28/2013 at 9:55 am

        cos butter melts in everyone’s mouth

  140. 04/28/2013 at 4:01 am

    OMG Tracey, your completely different direction wasn’t headed towards Last Tango in Paris?

    • Tracey A
      04/28/2013 at 4:13 am

      LMAO! Perhaps it ’twas!!! You crack me up Girl!!! 😀

      • Chrissie A
        04/28/2013 at 4:55 am

        Truthiness:

      • 04/28/2013 at 5:24 am

        LOL I saw you posted that on twitter #jodiarias and lolllled!!!

      • 04/28/2013 at 6:15 am

        Ooohhh gross Chrissie. Her face is stuck in that smile because if she changes it will crack the scab and bleed eeewwwwww kak

  141. Janeto
    04/28/2013 at 8:20 am

    Hello!!! anybody out there???? Hugs and waves to all!!!! Love all the comments!

  142. MMD
    04/28/2013 at 9:17 am

    Morning all – anyone home??????????????? sorry I missed you Janet {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}} Hardly ever get a chance to chat with you anymore.

    Ok ********waves******* to everybody- will be popping back and forth, currently engrossed in David Baldacci’s latest book about agencies that nobody ever hears about in the U.S. Love his books 😀

  143. 04/28/2013 at 10:15 am

    Good morning! I have not had a chance to read and catch up but I am about to do that. Hope everyone is having a great day.
    I came across this on my cousins fb page and just had to share. If you guys have seen it before, my apologies, if you haven’t then get ready to “ROR” ha ha.WTF??? HOW DO COURT RECORDERS KEEP STRAIGHT FACES????
    These are from a book called Disorder in the American Courts and are things people actually said in court, word for word, taken down and published by court reporters that had the torment of staying calm while the exchanges were taking place.

    ATTORNEY: What was the first thing your husband said to you that morning?
    WITNESS: He said, ‘Where am I, Cathy?’
    ATTORNEY: And why did that upset you?
    WITNESS: My name is Susan!
    _______________________________
    ATTORNEY: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact?
    WITNESS: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.
    ____________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Are you sexually active?
    WITNESS: No, I just lie there.
    ____________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: What is your date of birth?
    WITNESS: July 18th.
    ATTORNEY: What year?
    WITNESS: Every year.
    _____________________________________
    ATTORNEY: How old is your son, the one living with you?
    WITNESS: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can’t remember which.
    ATTORNEY: How long has he lived with you?
    WITNESS: Forty-five years.
    _________________________________
    ATTORNEY: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all?
    WITNESS: Yes.
    ATTORNEY: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
    WITNESS: I forget..
    ATTORNEY: You forget? Can you give us an example of something you forgot?
    ___________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn’t it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn’t know about it until the next morning?
    WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
    ____________________________________

    ATTORNEY: The youngest son, the 20-year-old, how old is he?
    WITNESS: He’s 20, much like your IQ.
    ___________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Were you present when your picture was taken?
    WITNESS: Are you shitting me?
    _________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
    WITNESS: Yes.
    ATTORNEY: And what were you doing at that time?
    WITNESS: Getting laid
    ____________________________________________

    ATTORNEY: She had three children , right?
    WITNESS: Yes.
    ATTORNEY: How many were boys?
    WITNESS: None.
    ATTORNEY: Were there any girls?
    WITNESS: Your Honor, I think I need a different attorney. Can I get a new attorney?
    ____________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: How was your first marriage terminated?
    WITNESS: By death..
    ATTORNEY: And by whose death was it terminated?
    WITNESS: Take a guess.
    ___________________________________________

    ATTORNEY: Can you describe the individual?
    WITNESS: He was about medium height and had a beard
    ATTORNEY: Was this a male or a female?
    WITNESS: Unless the Circus was in town I’m going with male.
    _____________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition notice which I sent to your attorney?
    WITNESS: No, this is how I dress when I go to work.
    ______________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Doctor , how many of your autopsies have you performed on dead people?
    WITNESS: All of them. The live ones put up too much of a fight.
    _________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: ALL your responses MUST be oral, OK? What school did you go to?
    WITNESS: Oral…
    _________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
    WITNESS: The autopsy started around 8:30 PM
    ATTORNEY: And Mr. Denton was dead at the time?
    WITNESS: If not, he was by the time I finished.
    ____________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?
    WITNESS: Are you qualified to ask that question?

    ______________________________________
    And last:

    ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
    WITNESS: No..
    ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
    WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
    ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
    WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

    • MMD
      04/28/2013 at 10:23 am

      😀 😆 🙂 Really needed to read that cause my book is getting pretty intense. I have no idea how Mike B. is able to keep a straight face during the JA trial but I suppose he has heard anything and everything. I just wouldn’t want to be that close to JA – ya never know what you could catch 😉

      • 04/28/2013 at 10:29 am

        Yes MMD I was happy it read it too. It is good to have a laugh while we wait so impatiently 😀

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 10:29 am

      LOL! hahahaha I needed that one! It’s not just with us!

      • 04/28/2013 at 10:32 am

        That last one HAD to be Willnot ha ha

      • 04/28/2013 at 10:57 am

        Robherrrr check upstairs left just for you….. just dont have any liquid in your mouth when you read it … *hint* it’s a no brainer

    • 04/28/2013 at 10:41 am

      ROFLMAO omg I ruv ruv ruv ruv that last one!!!!

    • Family of Law
      04/28/2013 at 11:49 am

      Thanks for the morning laughs Tupelomz! Have you worked out how you’ll get to see the trial from the Ozarks yet?

      • 04/28/2013 at 1:39 pm

        No FOL I have not 😦 I am leaving Wed. morning. That is not too bad because I can catch up Wed night by reading this site (Thank you Donchais in advance) and not have to suffer thru the actual testimony by the duhfence doc. But as to Thurs and Fri. I have no idea. I am hoping the ladies cut me some slack and allow me to drive into town on Sat and find a wifi hotspot. lol not holding my breath on that one

  144. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 10:24 am

    Hello and room hug to all.

    When looking through and thinking about the enhaced pictures, (and btw- NancyB- I read the link but can’t follow or understand what the author is saying. Maybe, like Mikee D, I haven’t had “rots and rots of coffee” and am in dullsville, but I found the article too cluttered to follow. Any clear synopsis would be appreciated!),I thought of Pocahontas when I saw the braided (not pig-tailed) one.

    300 years ago in Virginia, John Rolfe wrote a 5 page letter to his Church leaders explaining why he should be married to the braided Pocahontas. To them – she was of a cursed race which worshipped the devil. Rolfe – like a good Defense lawyer I guess – argued not on military, or personal affection or on sociological grounds for this dispensation, he argued theologically! He quoted Calvin, the Bible, Jewish scripture and told them that “the devil does indeed try to trap us with ‘these people’ but we’re gonna have a counter-move against the devil by converting Pocahontas. Pocahontas got baptised in the Church – became “Rebecca”- married John Wolfe, had a child with him, and died in England on a trip there

    “Our”Pocahontas didn’t take her baptism seriously and “our” John Rolfe knew it after 5 months. He told her that she was ” the worst thing that ever happened to” him. He moved away from her. She hopped on a horse, rode all night through the desert sleeping roadside and ambused him naked in the shed. She used her hunting knife for most of it and left a shot of gunpowder for good measure. She rode bac,k bareback and unbraided, into the arms of a warrior at the first campire she came across.

    “Our” John Wolfe tried. He brought her to the Church leaders. He got her baptised. He tried
    .
    “The ‘moral’ boys and girl”s I can hear a version of LaLaToilette saying,”is that sometimes the devil traps us.” Of course she’d also say that he devil was always a man, but “our” John and Pocahontas would come 300 years after that LaLaToilette so the moral now works about both men and women.

    • 04/28/2013 at 12:23 pm

      But did pocahontas do anything wrong? Is it pocahontas’ fault the braided jodistein reminded you of her?

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/28/2013 at 12:52 pm

        No No. You know first thought; Injun like. Then by 12:05pm on this thread I think I knew how I could combine the real good Indian girl who got baptised with the real bad one who killed.. “Our” Poca, had to have the Shaeffer-ed wobo added;.

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:54 pm

        aaahh yes good I feel better with that differentiation it was important to me! Thank You.

  145. 04/28/2013 at 10:37 am

    ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn’t it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn’t know about it until the next morning?
    WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
    ____________________________________

    Oh this is like Perky asking DeMarte is she could get information from a dead person!!!

    • MMD
      04/28/2013 at 10:43 am

      That’s exactly what I thought Syn 😆

  146. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 10:43 am

    Also Essem -that sign from twitter!!!ROTFROR

  147. MMD
    04/28/2013 at 10:46 am

    If we’re this impatient now, I hate to see what it’s going to be lick once the jury starts to deliberate 😉

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 10:52 am

      I might actually exercise

      • MMD
        04/28/2013 at 10:56 am

        I have sooooooooooooo much yard work to do but nope, nothing is gonna get done until this is over and done with!!! 😦

  148. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 10:50 am

    Syntara–after reading various articles over the break, including the very well written KR ones, You are definitely in that class, right up front, and have been our reliable and anchored guide. I think that people get the idea that although not a “hard” science, psychology is as much art as science. Discrimination of nuances, classifying and interpreting material, having an informed judgement based on research and data that supports it. high profile cases can enlarge the vocabulary used in everyday discourse. “DNA” was hardly understood by the masses who had’t read “The Double Helix” or heard about Rosalind Franklin. when the OJ trial brought it out of the science closet.

    • MMD
      04/28/2013 at 11:00 am

      I agree Robert – Syn is our go to expert for so much of this trial and I know she has truly educated me on soooooooooooo much. This truly is the School of Donchais because we have so many people who who truly know what the hell they are talking about, contrary to what the defense has shown!!!!

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:10 am

      Thanks Robbherr , also if people better used their free time to widen their seemingly limited breadth, they would find that indeed psychology, particularly the area confined to psychopathy research, is breaking into the hard science field.

      So much leading edge research is proving this through MRI research and case studies. To suggest psychology is not hard science shows a very limited knowledge base in relation to where the trail blazers are right now.

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/28/2013 at 11:26 am

        We should use different words than “hard” and “soft” science.when it doesn’t mean difficult and easy but rather verifiable and repeatable versus verifiable and interpretive. Like most things, there is overlap.Law isn’t a science nor is economics; the clearer these distinctions are made, the better educated the public..

      • 04/28/2013 at 11:28 am

        and if one limits themselves only to what science knows.. how will we ever progress? There is much science still cannot explain.

      • 04/28/2013 at 11:29 am

        I am a behavioural scientist by the way .. mmwhahahahaha

    • Jay
      04/28/2013 at 12:14 pm

      Some forms of psychology are hard science — like Neuropsychology, which studies the structure and function of the brain as it relates to psychological processes, and the kind of clinical behaviors that result from the way the brain functions when normal or damaged..

      And yes, you’re right, the kind of diagnostic psychology testimony at the trial by the expert witnesses to explain Arias’s behavior is based on artful interpretations — but like art it’s diverse in scope (from trompe l’oeil to impressionism to graffiti) and wildly subjective (like the parable of the blind-folded Indian men touching the elephant). Put five psychologists in a room to diagnose a murder defendant and you come up with five different ‘artful’ descriptions (watch the evolving diagnosis of Arais on the Dr Drew Show over the past months for verification)

      Overall, those diagnostic psychological definitions are unreliable (Samuel’s, LaViolette’s, Dr. Janine’s, and whatever variation the surrebuttal hired gun comes up with Wednesday. None of it should be admissible as evidence in court, to prove guilt or innocence.

      Those kinds of psychological tests shouldn’t be relied on for predictive assessments anymore than horoscopes. They’re especially damaging to individuals screened in the workplace who don’t get hired because one or two validity assessment data points on a subjective sliding scale indicate they may have a propensity for malingering or theft or sneering at a supervisor when his or her back is turned. But I’m sure anyone rejected for a job, standing on the unemployment line as their benefits are running out, will be comforted to know they’re merely a a participant in an artful endeavor.

      And Robert,I’m looking forward to a really good day today, as I’m sure you’re be glad to know, up at the Griffith Park Observatory for a ‘have a beer with the James Dean Bust’ Sunday. Yes, we’re in violation of the opened alcoholic beverage laws in the park, but then again, maybe we’re just unwitting participants under the artful diagonistic standards of the James Dean Effect.

      http://www1.appstate.edu/~kms/classes/psy2664/Documents/diener2001.pdf

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:27 pm

        mwhahhahaha trolling again Jay? seriously? you crack me up!!

  149. MMD
    04/28/2013 at 10:55 am

    I must admit though that last night I felt this real feeling of peace come over me about this case. It’s like there’s nothing to worry about any more. Things will work out the way they are supposed to.

    I started feeling calmer once ALV got off the stand, probably because she was driving me bat shit crazy and then everything all seemed to get calmer and calmer until I got this feeling last night. It was kinda weird!!!

    I guess I just have now put all my faith in JM and the jury and after the endless delays, sidebars, “sick” days, I truly feel that Travis and his family will finally get the justice they so deserve. I strongly feel that this jury will do the right and just thing.

    I know I sound like a loon (no offense to the bird) but ya know how feelings just come and you can’t explain them – well that’s what happened to me. 😉 Feel free to lock me in a closet until the of trial if you feel it’s necessary 😆

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 11:08 am

      I’d like to feel that way and glad you do. I think I may have to wait till it goes to jury, after hearing the closings. I think I’m gonna get all worked up during the defense closing, thats my main anxiety.

      • 04/28/2013 at 11:26 am

        ditto

    • Family of Law
      04/28/2013 at 11:58 am

      G’morning! I’m so glad you feel peaceful about it- I’m definitely hopeful, but I’m dreading the DT’s closing arguments! (anyone hear for certain who’s closing? S L O W Wurmi or Perkster “um kay”?)

  150. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 11:18 am

    “Every time we have a death penalty case, the county spends a million dollars with the defense
    and prosecutors and the appeals,” said Lake County Council President Larry Blanchard, who
    has presided over a series of contentious county budget cuts this year.
    “And no one is ever executed. It makes you question whether it’s worth the cost.”

    from an article in Indiana. A build up around the country of these multi-million dollar cases will produce,I think, either a banning of the DP or a cap on defense costs. i still wonder whether or not executing someone after they spend 20 years in solitary, is “cruel and unusual” punishment. It seems to add torture to the process ( let’s admit it, people like Wormi and Gidget are torture enough!)

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 11:41 am

      C. 2008 article:
      Since 1990, Lake County and the state have combined to spend more than $2.7 million
      defending 16 defendants in death penalty cases — $168,000 per case. Lake County rivals only
      Marion County in the number of death penalty cases filed, and the amount spent defendingThe number of executions is on the decline nationwide, falling from 326 in 1995 to 115 in 2007,
      according to the Department of Justice. Key factors are that states have eliminated the death
      penalty, or placed limitations on when it can be pursued. Perhaps more importantly, a
      sentence of life in prison without parole now is available to prosecutors.

      If you’re gonna premeditate and kill someone, maybe its best to do it in AZ rather than IN. I’m only guessing how low someof the states .
      .

  151. 04/28/2013 at 11:20 am

    Have you guys looked at this? If it is a repeat I am sorry.
    http://mixedbagblog.com/

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:26 am

      About Dr. Geffner

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:54 am

      NancyB you been at least two timing us! Sprung!!!

  152. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 11:20 am

    Syntara :
    Robherrrr check upstairs left just for you….. just dont have any liquid in your mouth when you read it … *hint* it’s a no brainer

    My Aussie – she’s got ya back.

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:31 am

      quid pro quo mate! quid pro quo! 😀

      thank you!

  153. Ci Ci's Circle
    04/28/2013 at 11:38 am

    tupelomz :
    Good morning! I have not had a chance to read and catch up but I am about to do that. Hope everyone is having a great day.
    I came across this on my cousins fb page and just had to share. If you guys have seen it before, my apologies, if you haven’t then get ready to “ROR” ha ha.WTF??? HOW DO COURT RECORDERS KEEP STRAIGHT FACES????
    These are from a book called Disorder in the American Courts and are things people actually said in court, word for word, taken down and published by court reporters that had the torment of staying calm while the exchanges were taking place.
    <p
    ATTORNEY: Can you describe the individual?
    WITNESS: He was about medium height and had a beard
    ATTORNEY: Was this a male or a female?
    WITNESS: Unless the Circus was in town I’m going with male.
    _____________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Doctor , how many of your autopsies have you performed on dead people?
    WITNESS: All of them. The live ones put up too much of a fight.
    _________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
    WITNESS: The autopsy started around 8:30 PM
    ATTORNEY: And Mr. Denton was dead at the time?
    WITNESS: If not, he was by the time I finished.
    ____________________________________________
    ATTORNEY: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?
    WITNESS: Are you qualified to ask that question?
    ______________________________________
    And last:
    ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
    WITNESS: No..
    ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
    WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
    ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
    WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

    A HA HA HA HA!!! Priceless!! Now this sounds like JA’s Duh-fense at their finest hour!! The rest of them are true gems, but these stood out and sound just like Willanurmi and Nurm the Wurm!! Hilarious….thanks for sharing!!

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:43 am

      Glad you enjoyed Ci Ci. I had to “ror” when I read it myself.

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:51 am

      LaLa and the 7 dwarves

      Juan: The dwarves weren’t snow white’s age were they?
      LaLa: I don’t know the age of the dwarves
      Juan: [Well don’t you think the grey hair and beards gives a clue?]

      __________________

      Perky speaks to dead people.

      Perky: Did you get information from Travis Alexander?
      DeMarte: No because he was not alive
      Perky: But you didn’t question him did you?
      DeMarte: [quizzical look] No because he was not alive.

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/28/2013 at 12:01 pm

        LOL!!!!

  154. Allison
    04/28/2013 at 11:39 am

    Syntara :
    Plus .. if she had just blackmailed him with that sex recording he didn’t even know she had made… do you really think he would have done those shower poses for her? Come on! He was not comfortable allowing anyone in there when he showered anyhow… she even said “Oh Travis wouldn’t go for that” when Det Flores first mentioned they had the photos of him in the shower.
    No, she had been on her VERY best behaviour that day. Not threatening him with a recording to blackmail him.

    I read somewhere (there are so many blogs ab out this trial) that someone said that Jodi had stolen some of Travis’ journals and THAT is what added to his anger on that last email where he calls her all those names. She then tells him (later) that she will give the journals back to him and that is why she comes ot his house on June (3)4. So he lets her in and he is cordial to her because she gives the journals back. Then all the craziness happens – – she cleans up and then takes the journals BACK when she drives to Utah – – and nobody knows she has these journals. The Hughes have other journals that Jodi didn’t take. Anyway – can’t remember where I read this, but it was VERY interesting. Anybody else know what I am talking here??? 🙂

    • 04/28/2013 at 11:40 am

      yes but I doubt that is it either.. simply because she would not admit to stealing them in the first place.

  155. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 12:05 pm

    maybe Pocawobo? or Wobohantos?
    sorry just wandering….

    • 04/28/2013 at 12:12 pm

      ROR!!! pocawobo!

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/28/2013 at 12:14 pm

        i give you permission to use in scholarly paper; could even use “ms” befite it 🙂

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:15 pm

        lOMG robherrrr that is soooooo her sooo her!!! ruv ruv ruv it!

  156. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 12:16 pm

    You could call it “multicultural trauma and ethnic-religio tendencies: Pocahantas versus Snow White”

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 12:17 pm

      of course dedicate to LalaViorette!

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/28/2013 at 12:28 pm

        she’s the “keynote breakout speaker” when you give your paper. Her version is titled “Pocahantas dragged to the altar? You betcha!”

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:36 pm

        RaRa Viorette! prease!!! get it right!

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:38 pm

        LOLOL!!!

        “Pocahantas dragged to the altar, you betchya! ”

        ROFRMAO!!!!!!

  157. Jay
    04/28/2013 at 12:17 pm

    Arias Trial Docket

    If anyone’s interested — here’s the updated docket.. A little on the dull side (no smiley faces or {huggie wuggies} but helpful for timeline aficionados

    http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CriminalCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CR2008-031021

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 12:24 pm

      Jay! Take a deep breath up there (Griffith Park) for me! I’m used to driving there and looking out and always bring newcomers there.
      I dont disagree about “experts in court.” I think the only “interpreters” should be jurors. Anything else should be to explain what can’t be understood. One time i was involved with a court ordered arbitration: the other side provided an “expert”(a moron) and I didnt provide one precisely because he was so moronic. Th eother sidess lawyer said” when one provides an “expert” you have to weigh that against thje other side not having one orsomething. I won.

      • Jay
        04/28/2013 at 12:35 pm

        On my way right now, Robert… Have you been there since the renovations? A little more touristy than it was with the new restaurant, etc… but this early it’s nice and peaceful on the promenade where the statute is on display. And the panoramic view is the same, with the same hokey view of the Hollywood Sign..

    • 04/28/2013 at 12:31 pm

      🙄 what no smiley faces?? 😦 ok can’t read it then 😛

      • Robert in Rotterdam
        04/28/2013 at 12:41 pm

        Now that you mention it, I was finally comfortable when the internet started rolling because I would exchange these easy to write, long emails and they’d get there right away and the whole process I had of carbon paper for typed letters gradually flew away with a little sigh
        . Bu then text!on the phone!twitter!100 characters! emoticons and avatars! At first I liked the cleverness of them; on one video site, I get so caughjt up with what people choose as their “own sign” that I miss a lot of the comments because like Pacawobo when encountering a man of veracity, my mind jumbles.
        Then I think, OH crap! no one will want to write now. They will exchange eyes up and down or a frown and that’ll be it. Sort of the old style of acting at the time of the 18th century–lots of gestures to “indicate” a sterotypical emotion. Probably what the cave dwellers used as well. Maybe words are useless and only images will survive? (here I would normally place a smiley, but I won’t)

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:48 pm

        Robheer my dear boy! Embrace it! Fear not the smiley for it oft clarifies the spoken word. If RaRa Viorette had emails and txts with smiley’s she may well have rearised the narrow perspective her interpretations held.

        So I say 😯 🙄 👿 😆 away and embrace enhancement of the written word!

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:49 pm

        🙄 dammit that should say written word not spoken word doh! 😳

    • Family of Law
      04/28/2013 at 1:56 pm

      I think you could use a huggy, and a wuggy…

  158. MMD
    04/28/2013 at 12:50 pm

    Robert – ya still around?????????

    • 04/28/2013 at 12:53 pm

      MMD with all these days off how come you aren’t with Juan? Did he dump you?

      • MMD
        04/28/2013 at 12:55 pm

        He’s right here beside me darlin’ – can ya see him waving at ya??????????? 😀

      • 04/28/2013 at 12:56 pm

        lol!!!!! good.. can you let us know what he’s going to say in his closing plse?

      • MMD
        04/28/2013 at 12:59 pm

        The truth about exactly what happened – he’ll tie everything together in a perfect bow for the jury and the Alexander family! 🙂

  159. Robert in Rotterdam
    04/28/2013 at 12:54 pm

    yes MMD aboutto run though.

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 12:55 pm

      you know dinnertime and all that crap 🙂

      • MMD
        04/28/2013 at 12:55 pm

        Just a quick question???????????????

  160. 04/28/2013 at 12:55 pm

    I’ll catch everyone later.. play nice 😀

  161. MMD
    04/28/2013 at 12:56 pm

    Are ya cooking Robert?????????????????? 😀

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 12:58 pm

      NO! On Sunday we order out! On the way at 7pm and thats in 3 minutes!

  162. MMD
    04/28/2013 at 12:57 pm

    Anyway, just cause I’m nosy and because people end up in all parts of the world for various reasons, I just wondered how you ended up in the land of windmills and tulips??????? if ya’d care to share 😀

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      04/28/2013 at 12:59 pm

      when its slower and when i got time 🙂
      but ity starts with a female 🙂

      • MMD
        04/28/2013 at 1:00 pm

        it usually does 😆 Catcha later!!!!!!!

  163. Laine
    04/28/2013 at 1:20 pm

    Hey guys! I haven’t been on in a while, Work is kinda manic at the moment. I’m off to Istanbul in a week and then home for a week then out to Philly for a week! So trying to get things organised travel and work wise has meant late meetings and lots to do!
    I thank you donchais so much for your summaries, I missed the last day of trial through meetings but know I can rely on you to bring me up to speed! Thanks to Chrissie for Tweeting and f’booking me keeping me up to date too, I don’t know what I’d do without you guys! I was sorry to hear Jury#8 had gone, but we still have alternates so I’m not worrying yet! I think Dr Horne (Dr cutness) as I like to refer to him! did a sterling job bringing the jury back to the reason they are there graphic shots included and please…JA-queen of FAKE from her FAKE boobs to her FAKE stories to her FAKE tears….isn’t that what you asked to see in the station with your morbid curiosity??? and yet you turned away…give me a break! we are not as green as we’re cabbage looking! as my old dad would have said! and we’re not buying your crap! I hope you have your FAKE tears ready for the verdict…you are gonna need them! My heart breaks for the Alexanders, but they have shown temendous dignity and unity throws this sometimes farcical trial and I have nothing but respect and love for them. Let’s pray we all hear the news we’ve been waiting so long for in the very near future now. Love and thanks to you all for your passion, research and support through this trial you guys are so special…:)

    • MMD
      04/28/2013 at 1:25 pm

      Hey Laine – sounds like you are in for a really busy few weeks and that you’ll be taking off just as the jurors will be getting the case. Since they prob won’t be deliberating over the weekend I hope that you have a good internet connection in Istanbul!!!

      Besides all this travel, don’t ya have either your daughter or your son getting married in Oct???? which will bring out the best and worst in everyone, as wedding planning always does 🙄

      • Laine
        04/28/2013 at 2:11 pm

        Yep, son is getting married in Oct which is alternately costing me a fortune and stressing me out! But I think I have it all under control now…flowers ordered wedding venue booked and paid for meals booked, flowers booked and on and on! Unfortunately the job pays for the fancy wedding since it’s only me and my son and his partner paying for it! so needs must! Unfortunately my ex husband of 25yrs hasn’t spoken to our son in 10yrs since he came out (my son not my ex lol)So I work to make sure he doesn’t have less just because his father is a dick! So it’s all go!! but hey isn’t that what lifes about! I love my life and I love my kids they are worth every hour spent 🙂

  164. Laine
    04/28/2013 at 1:25 pm

    I knew I wouldn’t get away without a spelling error! arghhh! *through not throws lol oh and thanks whoever posted the vid about – if I were a juror – powerful stuff! including stuff I hadn’t thought of! Really cool!

  165. Family of Law
    04/28/2013 at 1:58 pm

    I posted a version of this in early April- Its just some of what rattles around in my brain now that the end is in sight….

    On May 26th, Travis wrote to JA telling her she was “The worst thing that ever happened”  to him. He had finally seen her for who she was! May 28th, she staged the burglary at her grandparents. Road trip was ON!

    There is no way I believe that Travis “guilted her” into coming to see him during her “spontaneous” road trip. He WAS done. I cannot imagine he would EVER invite her into his home again.  “If” JA did tell him she was coming to Mesa before Utah, why was her phone off for 18 hours? Wouldn’t she have called to let him know her progress? Let him know when she was almost there?

    1. JA was completely obsessed with Travis- she was unable to have NO communication with him for any length of time- even after she murdered him, she called, texted, emailed and journaled. Yes, all part of her “it wasn’t me” plan, but also, because she was even in his death, still OBESSED and needed to “contact” him.
    2. How did she clean herself up, do her hair and makeup before arriving at Ryan Burns? Yes, I too believe she showered “over his dead body”, but I believe she truly looked like Sissy Spacek as “Carrie” on Prom night- she must have been head to toe in blood. She would want to show up at Ryan Burns, looking “normal” (afterall, she was upset while being booked on Murder 1 without her hair and make up done) – so clearly she would PRIMP, to go see another man. How could she have done all of this, and the “clean up” in a FOG???? 
    3. I’m NOT convinced they had sex on June 4th. Travis was done with her, as of late May, I dont believe he agreed to even see her, let alone engage her further. All we have is “her word”, that they spent the day having sex and doing Calvin Klein photo shoots. (The picture of Travis sitting in the shower? I dont buy it! Why would a 180+ LB man choose to squash himself down in a very small shower stall?) She could have taken those “sexy” photos with a timer (I burned my retinas out seeing the pic of her over used snatch). And IF she was this “accomplished” photographer, why were the supposedly planned shower pics, dark, unfocused, and blurry? And I suspect, some were taken with a zoomed lens.
    4. Phone sex tape was planned by JA alone. Travis had NO idea it was being recorded. She manipulated him to say things, and coyly asked him to repeat things if they were slightly inaudible. Not once during the call did either of them reference it being recorded. This tape was for blackmail, not mutual pleasure.  If LAV knew WTF she was talking about, that would have been a red flag, and not a red herring- if Travis was indeed the control freak, raging abuser that she stated he was, he would NEVER have allowed JA to have sole control of that recording.
    5. I believe there are shards of truth in several of JA’s stories- JA wrote in her journal that she had a dream that TWO people were charged in his murder, one charged with murder, and the other charged with conspiracy.  (I think she was trying to implicate Matt M). It’s obvious that JA’s journal entries were all cunning, calculated words that she KNEW and WANTED to be read. IF JA had written any of her truth in her journals, she would have DESTROYED them- she knew she was going to be arrested- she told Det. Flores where her journals were, and said that “they’ll prove my innocence”.
    6. She forged documents claiming Travis was a pedophile.
    While leading her own defense, she attempted to blackmail the Prosecutor into a plea deal. (agree to give me Murder 2, and I won’t drag Travis and his family through the depths of Hell!) When denied, pedophilia was brought in as part of her “poor Travis was deeply sick, and wanted to be a better man, having sex with me helped cure his lust for baby boys in spidey under-roos, I’m a good girl, just trying to help”!!!!! Ack! NO pedophilia found in Travis’s home, not on any computer, and no photos. Where did the photos go that she saw him master-bating to?  
    7. Self Defense? Well, 9 stab wounds were to Travis’s back… And she had merely a cut finger…. 

    If the jury deliberates with these questions: 
    The Defense case:
    1. JA was a victim of DV? 
    2. Was Travis a pedophile? 
    3. Does JA suffer from PTSD? 
    4. Was JA Travis’s “dirty little secret”?
    5. JA “feared for her life” (because she dropped a camera?)

    The State’s case:
    1. Stolen .25 caliber gun one week prior to the murder
    2. No evidence Travis ever owned a gun
    3. No evidence of pedophilia in Travis’s home.
    4. Rented car (blonde hair, 90 miles away, obscure color).
    5. (3) gas cans (no return to Walmart)
    6. Dyed hair brown
    7. License plates altered
    8. Traveled through the state of Arizona without a paper trail, or GPS (phone battery removed)
    9. Travis had never been abusive in any prior relationships
    10. Wrote LIES in her journal “I just wish I knew how Travis died?” etc, etc, etc. 
    11. Changed story 3 times
    12. Tried to pass encrypted messages in magazines while in jail
    13. Used Ryan Burns as an alibi
    14. Was trying to flee from imminent arrest with her car packed with a 9mm gun and knives. 
    15. Over 90 photographs- some she “thought” she deleted. Time stamps show gruesome timeline of events.
    16. JA had a cut on her finger, Travis had 29 knife wounds, a slit throat, and a gun shot to his head. 
    17. She went to Ryan Burns for a romantic weekend, Travis lied dead in his shower for 5 days.
    (Not a complete list- just the highlights)

  166. Irie Girl
    04/28/2013 at 2:06 pm

    If there is good to be found in this trial, it could be that the interest it has attracted is giving many people their first glimpse of our criminal justice system. I am one of these people.
    I have read that there are only three states that allow jury questions; also there are three states in which the jury hands down the sentence. I am assuming these two things go together, juries are allowed questions because they determine the sentence, whereas previously a judge (who was privy to much more evidence than what was presented to a jury) determined sentencing and so there was no need for jury interaction. This change was in response to a recent Supreme Court decision, have I put this together correctly? And will this be seen in other states in the future?
    I am encouraged by the statistic: Arizona juries have handed down a death penalty verdict in 14 of the 18 cases since this change.
    I think this is a good procedure; juries are not burdened by the complex legal jargon. They should not be mindful of the cost to the state, and they are not worried about an appellate court overturning (i.e. questioning) the verdict. Since a death sentence automatically initiates an appeal process, I think the accused is still protected.

  167. 04/28/2013 at 2:13 pm

    I was looking around on one of the FB pages and they had compaired Hoho’s “artistic” rendering of the red lips holding the little blue pill in its teeth as a copy off an add photo, which is not at all surprising, but someone on the post pointed out that there appears to be hidden words in the Hoho drawing. I could not make out the words that appear to be on the bottom lip but I do deff see a “T” on the top lip. I tried to copy the pic and post here but could not (not computer savy enough 😳 ) Anyone see that pic or have a link to it?

    • 04/28/2013 at 2:14 pm

      😳 again… that should say “ad photo”

  168. donchais
    04/28/2013 at 2:18 pm

    Have your properly signed field-trip permission slips out for inspection!

    https://callsforjustice.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/jodi-arias-murder-trial-day-fifty-four-discussion-continues-2/

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