Home > Crime > Jodi Arias Murder Trial – Day Fifty-Seven

Jodi Arias Murder Trial – Day Fifty-Seven


What a day yesterday!  Juan Martinez really hit it out of the park.  He really tied things up and explained to the jury how simple it is for them to reach a guilty verdict!

Jodi is a manipulator and lies when it benefits her!

Court begins at 9:09.  Buckle-up, I think we’re in for a bumpy ride because Nurmi has asked to approach….grrr.


Aspects of the human relationship play a prominent role…fear, love, sex, lies…

Nurmi shows the photo of Travis in the shower and then the one 3 minutes later with Travis’ body be dragged and asks what happened in those minutes.

Screen shot 2013-05-03 at 12.22.48 PM

Now playing on the fear of the jurors…they missed something…the other jurors may not like what you feel


You may feel fear how your verdict will be received by, Ms. Arias, the court, the world…

Put that fear aside and look at the evidence…

This is not about bad haircuts, the sexual orientation of the witnesses.

It’s not about whether you like or don’t like Jodi Arias.  Most days I don’t like Jodi Arias.

Jodi has a big smile for that one!

In May 2008 she moved back to Yreka to get away from Travis.  She journaled about how lightened she felt.

She began communicating with and dating other men.  She wasn’t stuck on Mr. Alexander.

Why would she stage the burglary at her grandparent’s house?  She could have just taken it and there would be no police report.  Or she could have gotten a gun from her father’s collection.

She rented a car.  Even the State admitted she was a smart woman.  Why would she leave a paper trail?  You wouldn’t do that if you’re on a covert mission!

Gotta say, not impressed… not a single argument has been persuasive!

Says when Darryl Brewer testified she came to borrow gas cans because she was going to Mesa that he was probably mistaken when he said Mesa!

Swear, if Nurmi says ‘covert mission’ one more time, I’ll reach through the screen and bitch slap him.

Is Jodi guilty of lying?  Yes, she is, but your not being asked to convict of lying…it’s not on the verdict form and we’ll get to others who have lied in this case later!

Oh, that was a hell of a threat Nurmi!

Nurmi already up to June 3rd!

LMAO off…Juan isn’t even taking notes, bet the jury isn’t either!

Lots and lots of bullshittery happening here!

Nurmi asks if she had the gun and knife when she got to Travis’ house, like the pros says, why didn’t she shoot him then and there?

Showing picture of Travis in shower with his back to Jodi in arguing he would not do that if he was scared.  Also said with his back to her, that would have been her perfect opportunity to kill.  He wouldn’t have even seen her coming!

IMHO, Nurmi’s closing is only bolstering how weak the defense case is…smoke and mirrors!

15-min break called…

Now shows photo of Travis sitting in the shower…when the pros says he is naked, we concede that.  They say he is vulnerable, is he?

Jodi gets down and strikes with the knife?  What didn’t she just shoot?

Now onto Jodi’s self-defense claim…

Nurmi conveniently forgets Jodi is mentally disturbed. You could tell that from her 18 days on the witness stand!  Nothing he’s saying makes sense the way Nurmi would like the jury to believe!

Jodi was assaulted on 4 different occasions as you’ve heard.

Slapping her, kicking her, breaking her finger…

Oh, sexual assault and penis talk…here he goes!  Going over the whole list.

Oh kill me…the actress is putting on the sad face for the benefit of the jury!  Wiping her snotty nose.Screen shot 2013-05-03 at 2.21.09 PM

Trashing Janine DeMarte as not an expert in domestic violence and trying to rehabilitate ALV this way.

Nurmi is so misstating things said by the State and their witness.

Now he’s moved on…trashing Travis and interest in little children!

Twice he’s bashed Deanna Reid and her character!

Nurmi is going all over the board now, jumping from one thing to another!

Ah, got in… whore, slut, 3 hole wonder, bitch…

Everything Nurmi is presenting is based on nothing but Jodi’s lies!

Nurmi is really attacking Travis Alexander’s character…could backfire on him if the jury has sympathy for him.

The only positive about this is, it is the LAST time anyone will bash Travis Alexander’s character!

Oh, Travis made-up the stalker idea just in case he caught her sneaking in or out of the house!!!!

Just in case????

Notice I’m not reporting on the bullshittery???  He’s presenting Jodi’s lies and skipping over forensic facts.  I’m beyond disgusted!

OMG!  Claims Dr. Horn said the bullet never entered the brain!  Absolute lie!

Now attacking Det. Flores.  Nurmi said that Dr. Horn should be sitting next to him so the light of truth could shine on both of them!  Somebody is lying here…not Jodi Arias!

Noon recess called…limited to 1 hour today!  (yeah, sure, lol!)

Court resumes at 1:00!!!  On time, but of course the inevitable sidebar…

Jury back at 1:03.

Nurmi is really trying to get at least one juror to go for doubt and there was no premeditation.  Pointing out manslaughter in the juror instructions.  The defense and Arias, as well, know the have no case.

Was Jodi a reasonable person when she dragged Travis’ body 10 feet down the hallway and shoved him in the shower?  Was she reasonable when she had already stabbed him in the chest, think it was ok to continue stabbing him in the back and his head?

I freakin knew it…Nurmi playing cherry-picked pieces of the phone sex tape…pig!

If this was just for shock value, I might understand, but Nurmi gets off on this salacious garbage.  There aren’t enough barf bags in the warehouse!

Jodi was Travis’ dirty little secret.  Travis was free to date good Mormon girls because he used Jodi for the sex.

I am so skeeved out by Nurmi!!!  In my mind’s eye, I see him in a wrinkled, old raincoat, slouched down in a seat at a porno movie.

Nurmi is rambling and all over the place…I’m ready to nap!  He’s just making stuff up about the crime scene.

Nurmi shows the picture of Jodi dragging Travis.

Dr. Horn said Travis wouldn’t have been able to move, but here you see Travis is holding his head up and his arm is up.

Good gawd, she was dragging him…his head was against her leg and she was pulling him after grabbing him under his arms!!!!!

So, anyone hear Nurmi explain the defense version of events, explaining all the stab wounds????

Ahhh, ALV said abused women don’t know where to stop.

She snapped after all that had happened.  Heat of passion after the toxic relationship.

She very well may have snapped!

The ultimate question is what happened in that moment in time.

Uhhhh, Mr. Nurmi, excuse me…I think many have a gun and knife on them now!

If Ms. Arias is guilty of anything at all…it’s manslaughter!

There is a God…we are at recess…

Expect Juan to come back full-bore and with surgical precision!

Juan up…

When the law is on your side, you use the law…when nothing on your side, you just argue.

Do you care about haircuts or sexual orientation?

The pedophilia, why didn’t she go to the media if she wanted to do damage!

LMAO  big time…Juan bringing in the message she tried to smuggle out of jail about the pedophilia…


Judge allows Juan to continue because it’s in evidence!

Oh, this is rich…Juan on fire and saved the best for last!

OMG, ya have to watch the film later!

The defendant claims she was upset when Mr. Alexander used the word fuck, but in the message she tried to smuggle before the pedophilia hearing, she said, ‘ you fucked up’


This will be objection after objection…you watch!  If so, tells the jury what Juan is saying is true!!!

Judge pretty much overruling the defense objections…may have peed my pants a little!

Stephens on the same page with Juan!!!!

Willmott telling Nurmi when to object again!  Same as she did yesterday!

Everything about her trip was documented, except the part here in AZ!!!

Everything presented to you was argument so you could not focus in on this case!

The salacious tape that was played didn’t contain any of Jodi’s words, only Mr. Alexander’s.

Juan is incredible…my heart be still…he is so championing the character of Travis’ and his memory and justice for his family!

They talked about booty call. Travis’ was Jodi’s booty call!!!

Everything has been argument.  Where do you draw the line?  She has lied to everyone and came in here and lied again!

Screen shot 2013-05-03 at 5.44.32 PMThere is a look of total defeat at the defense table.

Somebody lied to you about all the important facts in this case!  Throughout this whole thing she has lied to us and everybody else.

First-degree murder is the true and correct charge here!

Jodi is madly scribbling notes to Willmott and doing little shakes of the head, no at Juan’s finish.  Little late, Jodi.

Ms. Arias couldn’t let Mr. Alexander go!

You now have the burden of reviewing the facts and I ask you come back with a verdict of guilty because Travis was slaughtered by this woman.

“For whom does the bell toll?”

And, the master prosecutor is done!!!

Jodi looks ill!

Bailiffs for the jury being sworn.

Alternates are jurors 10-Barb, 17-Ponytail, and 15- Elderly man. Final jury is 4 women and 8 men.  Alternates, 2 women and one male.

6:37 jurors sent to the jury room.

See ya Monday, if not before!

That’s it folks…on verdict watch!!!

I will go to sleep tonight knowing the forensics and the prosecution proved 1st degree is beyond a reasonable doubt to me, Arias committed the heinous, vicious crime. 

It’s been a long time coming for Travis, his family, and all of us searching for justice!

  1. HJ Madison
    05/03/2013 at 7:01 pm

    Gees I wish we could all go out for a drink! Thanks Donchais …. lets hope it is not a long wait.

    • C.I.
      05/04/2013 at 12:05 am

      Thanks so much donchais for everything the recaps, the giggles, the tin foil hats, hip waders, barf bags and a safe playground. Take a big bow as we all clap for you – you have earned it. Praying so hard for Travis and his family that this jury gets it right.

      • C.I.
        05/04/2013 at 12:10 am

        I also thank all of you in here for great conversation, laughs and encouragement when it was needed.

    • 05/04/2013 at 4:01 am

      I am praying for a speedy deliberation with a verdict of guilty 1st degree and there is time enough to sentence her on June 4…

  2. Elexa
    05/03/2013 at 7:02 pm

    Beautiful job, Donchais. Thank you so much!

  3. Margherita Lebsack
    05/03/2013 at 7:02 pm

    Thank you for your diligence in following this trial and your excellent recaps. Do you or anyone else know how to get a notification when the verdict is reached?

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:04 pm

      Twitter — Chris Stark, WildAboutTrial, Vinnie Politan at HLN, or goggle alert …. or ??

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 7:05 pm

      Hate to say it, but if ya get HLN…keep it on…all their folks are out their…otherwise, go to the sites streaming it and they may have a sign-up. I will post as soon as I have word as to when the verdict will be read.

    • Wendy
      05/03/2013 at 7:56 pm

      you can get a text message sent to your phone from CBS5

  4. Elexa
    05/03/2013 at 7:02 pm

    And I’m going to post this again (Is that even legal?)

    Ok, everybody, what’s your general feeling?

    Early verdict? Like today or Monday

    Or longer? Tuesday or later

    • meljodcat
      05/03/2013 at 7:04 pm

      Hopefully today

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:07 pm

      Sure it is legal… I say either late Monday or they decide to sleep on it and come back Tuesday morning. If it starts to drag out ….. I shudder to think!

    • Elexa
      05/03/2013 at 7:08 pm

      Yeah, I’ll go crazy if it goes longer than Monday.
      I’m hoping that they take a first vote, all be in agreement and come back right away. lol

  5. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 7:04 pm

    jodi just walked up to the judge with counsel and she did not have leg irons on.

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 7:06 pm

      No leg irons in AZ…leg brace over the knee and stun belt on waist.

      • JesusFreak
        05/03/2013 at 7:08 pm


  6. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 7:04 pm

    someone on hln said something is going on.

  7. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 7:05 pm

    be just like her to plea now, for life.

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 7:07 pm

      Can’t, only the State can offer a plea to her.

      • JesusFreak
        05/03/2013 at 7:08 pm

        wow! thanks again.

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:07 pm

      TOO LATE!!! Plus, she tried for 2nd degree once already. No way!!!

      • Elexa
        05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

        Yes, it was like “Give me 2nd degree or I’ll destroy Travis’s name completely”.
        It was gross.

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:08 pm

      don’t think Juan would go for it.

  8. 05/03/2013 at 7:07 pm

    Donchais…. I want to thank you for what you have provided us. Not only excellent wrap ups each and every trial day but also a place to keep sane through this ordeal.

    You have touched many of us just by being you. Thank you so much.

    • truejustice
      05/03/2013 at 7:19 pm

      ditto 🙂 Thank you so much

    • truejustice
      05/03/2013 at 7:22 pm

      I’d also like to thank everyone here for answering questions, providing laughs, keeping us/me updated , offering opinions and theories , and for being a great community !

  9. McKealty
    05/03/2013 at 7:07 pm

    Does anyone know a website that will be sending a text or email alert when deliberation is finished?

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:08 pm

      just googled exactly that.. as yet I found nothing.. if you do plse post it in

      • Family of Law
        05/03/2013 at 7:13 pm

        Way to hang in there Syn! What time is it for you 9am?

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:14 pm

        nope a mere 7:14am 😀

      • Family of Law
        05/03/2013 at 7:35 pm

        I think you can safely take a well earned snooze now… It’s doubtful any breaking news will happen tonight, your tomorrow? Your today?…Ack, that’s too much math for my addled brain right now…

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:46 pm

        ya but Im caffeined how.. so gotta wait til it wears off 😛

      • Wendy
        05/03/2013 at 7:58 pm

        If you go to KPHO you can get a text message sent to your phone.

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:01 pm

        ya think? I dont think so!

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:01 pm

        maybe I should put it in and see if it works lol..

      • 05/04/2013 at 4:04 am

        wildabouttrial is doing a verdict watch

    • JesusFreak
      05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

      vinnie politan on twitter said you could sign up to friend him and he would send a text out.

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

      See upstairs .. #3 right now.

    • McKealty
      05/03/2013 at 7:10 pm

      I’m sorry, I see this has already been asked. I really should have read before posting this and I apologize.

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:14 pm

        We have all done it ..no problem … did you find someone to follow?

  10. 05/03/2013 at 7:08 pm

    Hear, hear

  11. CathyP
    05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

    Thanks donchais, that was quick! Hopefully we will have a verdict soon!

  12. donchais
    05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

    Syntara :

    Donchais…. I want to thank you for what you have provided us. Not only excellent wrap ups each and every trial day but also a place to keep sane through this ordeal.

    You have touched many of us just by being you. Thank you so much.

    Thanks, feel like I’m in a meltdown right now after this long trip, but the victim, family and you guys supporting them make it worthwhile!

    • JesusFreak
      05/03/2013 at 7:11 pm

      Spend your time getting ready for your next trial. Many of us will be there with you. Know you do a great service for family and friends that are suffering tremendously.

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:14 pm

      I’m not surprised you would be somewhat overcome. I assume you have some good support there. I hope you do. I know you have your emotions involved in that next trial too.. please tell me there is a break between.

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

        Dunno, trial starts May 13. Here if guilty, we still have a crap of stuff…mitigation..penalty…yada yada. Stopped worrying till closer to the 13th, lol! {{{hugs}}}

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:30 pm

        well at least you will hve some kind of a mini break … though with the tension waiting for verdict I’m not sure it counts. Still Im glad this ended now and not the 12th or something.

  13. Family of Law
    05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

    Thank you, thank, thank you Donchais!!!! That was once again, a fantastic wrap up!!! Your imagery of Wurmi, “I am so skeeved out by Nurmi!!!  In my mind’s eye, I see him in a wrinkled, old raincoat, slouched down in a seat at a porno movie.”, was SO perfect!!!!

  14. nienna
    05/03/2013 at 7:09 pm

    Really want a verdict today!!

  15. Kristy
    05/03/2013 at 7:10 pm

    Donchais, you have been absolutely wonderful in your recaps! Thank you so much for what you’ve done.

  16. Cannondax
    05/03/2013 at 7:13 pm

    I asked earlier but got a sarcastic answer. Can someone tell me if it’s true that the defense argued that the prosecution could not talk about Arias’ obvious lack of remorse. Up to the very end she was smirking, shaking her head and talking to herself. Why would the remorse issue be off the table for Juan?

    • Elexa
      05/03/2013 at 7:15 pm

      I answered and it was not a sarcastic answer, it was true.

      • Elexa
        05/03/2013 at 7:16 pm

        I’ll try to find where I read that for you…..

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:17 pm

      Yes. The remorse assumes she knows she is guilty — and right now, theoretically, she killed in self defense. Remorse comes later at sentancing and/or penalty phase. The DT has filed a motion to preclude in the penalty phase. I do not think it has been acted on.

    • Elexa
      • Cannondax
        05/03/2013 at 7:28 pm

        Thanks! My misunderstanding.

      • Cannondax
        05/03/2013 at 7:30 pm

        Very good. I appreciate the reply. I also hope that her lack of remorse is a HUGE part of the penalty phase.

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 7:29 pm

      Wait for mitigation!

  17. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 7:14 pm

    Wwow What a brilliant re-cap, Donchais… you are the best! 🙂

  18. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 7:15 pm

    the court seal is still up… the anxiety is insane…….. stomach STILL in knots!
    this gives new meaning to the word INTENSE

    • nienna
      05/03/2013 at 7:17 pm


  19. 05/03/2013 at 7:18 pm

    I dont have the court seal I have a terrible noise and the coloured screen…. what feed you on moon?

    • Moon
      05/03/2013 at 7:21 pm
      • 05/03/2013 at 7:22 pm

        thanks 🙂

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:22 pm

      Is it humid in Arizona at the moment?

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:26 pm

        lol I have no idea! 😛

      • truejustice
        05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

        no dry as a bone. Very probable there will be little to no measurable rain till July

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:30 pm

        True: Is it ever “humid” in AZ???

  20. 05/03/2013 at 7:19 pm

    Thank you Donchais, I missed a lot of Nurmi because I couldn’t stay awake, had no trouble staying awake with Juan yesterday 😉 woke up again to Juan finishing. If the jury comprise the astute people who asked the telling questions then I don’t think it will be long before verdict. I can’t see anything less than 1st Degree.

  21. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 7:19 pm

    Jane Velez Mitchell people are saying they will probably deliberate today and tomorrow. I heard the judge say the alternates would be released and should show up monday. How can they deliberate without them?

    • Kristy
      05/03/2013 at 7:22 pm

      My understanding is that the alternates don’t deliberate with the selected jurors unless there’s a replacement and are then instructed to start over.

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:23 pm

      I doubt they deliberate over the weekend … maybe??? The Alternates do not deliberate, in fact …. if we need one, they have to START deliberations ALL over again! Ugh! Beth Karas just reported 9 to 4:30, Mon to Fri. She also said JM once had a DP case that came back in 15 minutes … WOWSER!!!

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 7:37 pm

      Alternates sit in a separate room and do not deliberate. If called in to replace a juror…deliberations begin anew.

  22. donchais
    05/03/2013 at 7:20 pm

    Just FIY…think the jury is as exhausted as we are…don’t think it will be late for them…may pick foreperson, but that’s all. Budget in AZ doesn’t provide for court security on weekends…so, unless a pretty significant dispensation is granted…think they’ll begin serious deliberations on Monday. Hope that helps!

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:24 pm

      Can’t blame them. I am curious to know who is foreman… really need that darn fly and a 007 mini mic attached to it….

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:24 pm

      There you go … as always .. Thank you.

  23. Gwen
    05/03/2013 at 7:21 pm

    Thank you Donchais….great wrap up…didn’t watch much of wurmi…but was there for OUR JUAN!!!! AMAZING!!!!!!!!!! LOVE this man!!! His passion is amazing…..best closing. So proud of him and HOPEFUL for Travis’ family. Would love to see them come back tonight!!!!!!!
    Pray they are smart, reasonable people. The choice is simple. GUILTY!!!!!!!

  24. kristin
    05/03/2013 at 7:22 pm

    Thank you Donchais:) Syn said it perfectly. As for WOBO, all I can say is God bless bitch.

  25. Irie Girl
    05/03/2013 at 7:24 pm

    Donchais, thank you for this blog, it has been amazing!

    Did anyone else hear Nurmi allude to the juror members that asked so many questions, “we’ll they’re no longer here”. What.a.douche. Talk about blatant manipulation. I don’t fault the defense for having work ethic and trying to provide a vigorous defense, but I do think the lack of personal character they’ve displayed is grotesque.

    • nienna
      05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

      You said it

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:32 pm

      Could not agree more! That was a nasty crack that was not lost!

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:32 pm


    • 05/03/2013 at 7:33 pm

      and way to denigrate the whole legal system… oh look we got rid of the jurors who were most diligent.. yay us. Way to go Nurm!

  26. 05/03/2013 at 7:24 pm

    On HLN. Why are children in the crowd with the media? What do you tell your children?

    • Elexa
      05/03/2013 at 7:25 pm

      It’s a modern day “hangin'” party. Sad.

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:29 pm

        That is what it is like …

      • Elexa
        05/03/2013 at 7:33 pm

        It was like that for the Jerry Sandusky verdict, lots of kids around. Very bizarre.

  27. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 7:24 pm

    All due respect: God won’t Bless her UNTIL OR UNLESS she repents.

    • kristin
      05/03/2013 at 7:28 pm

      Ya I know I was just being dismissive lol!

  28. ritanita
    05/03/2013 at 7:26 pm

    It’s not over, peeps! Once convicted of 1st degree murder, there will be the aggravation phase, the mitigation phase, and the sentencing.

    A bunch of mini-trials with witnesses…

    • Elexa
      05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

      And here I thought I could finally get out to my garden. 😦

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

      How long do you think “aggravator” will go? Seems so obvious.

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:35 pm

      mini trials?

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:38 pm

        If she get 1st degree. Then we move to the next phases. Need more?

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:47 pm

        yeah I was wondering what these mini trials are ritanita referenced

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 7:53 pm

        Mitigators…witnesses to show why and explain all the reasons she shouldn’t get death (family and friends, teachers and why she shouldn’t be held responsible)…aggravators…what a biatch she is and deserves death because of consistent bad behavior…usually fairly short…not the blasted 4 1/2 months we went through…then the sentence…usually 30-60 days later in AZ

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:55 pm

        aaahh ok got you thanks! I was thinking there was more on top of that. 😳

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 8:06 pm

        nah, some forget that not all of the audience is from the US and answer in terminology we are familiar with! 🙂

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:58 pm

        30-60 days for sentence holey cow! I was rather hoping that was immediately after mitigation.. oh well how wrong I was! so that means she’s not going to see that isolation unit for a long while yet even if she ends up with DP Darn!!!

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 8:09 pm

        gives the judge time to review mitigators and aggravators as well as impact statements…and we’ve all seen how heavy the caseload is on the judges!

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:13 pm

        oh right.. I was not taking that into consideration. No wonder Jodi isn’t too unhappy at the moment… thankyou for taking the time to answer me.

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:54 pm

        Following 1st degree conviction then we enter an “aggravator phase”. JM has to show the jury the crime was comitted in “especially heinous, cruel or depraved manner”. The DT tries to show “mitigation”. If the jury returns with “aggravation” found, then we go on to the penalty phase — will it be DP or LWOP. This is when the family will finally get to speak — and so will WOBO, for that matter, if she wants.

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:00 pm

        oh lawdd no no no no I don’t wanna hear her speak!!! 😯

    • Moon
      05/03/2013 at 7:52 pm

      i didn’t understand that phase to be mini trials. i thought it would be open court and the pros argues why it should be death, ie no remorse etc, and is this also the phase where the Alexander’s and friends can give victim impact statements?

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 7:54 pm

        impact statements come just before the sentencing phase

      • Moon
        05/03/2013 at 7:56 pm

        oops… didn’t see donchais’ better reply!

    • 05/03/2013 at 8:59 pm

      What exactly is the mitigation phase?

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 9:01 pm

        where folks get up and say why Jodi shouldn’t be put to death.

      • 05/04/2013 at 10:47 pm

        Thank you for your response Donchias…who gets to go up and say why she shouldn’t get death? Is it her family and friends? Is there a limit to the amount of people allowed to speak?

        Also, do they allow people to get up and talk about why she should get death? Who and how many? We still have a little ways to go yet before this is put to rest, don’t we? This poor family.

  29. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

    and CLEARLY the ho has no intention of repenting anytime soon. She won’t even repent when the needle is going into her arm! She works for the DEVIL

    • kristin
      05/03/2013 at 7:29 pm

      Preach Moon!

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:45 pm

      oh come now Moon, you know that even before her arrest she was working through her repentence with that biship, he’d given her all those scriptures to read and she was reaching a whole new level of spirituality. She told detective Flores that in her interrogation vids.

      .. and since then she has had all those baptist and mormon guidance councillors helping her spirituality in jail.

      So don’t be so hard on her.. she really is trying dontcha know?

      • Moon
        05/03/2013 at 7:49 pm

        dang i musta been having a moment!

      • 05/03/2013 at 7:52 pm


  30. LindaLou
    05/03/2013 at 7:27 pm

    Donchais, thank you so much for all that you do and your wonderful recaps. What a long, long trial. Thanks for creating a place to meet so many wonderful people from all over.

    I have never seen a tragic death of one person touch so many people all over this world as the death of Travis Alexander. He wanted to visit 1,000 places before he died. He is and will be in our hearts forever and although he didn’t get to visit these places before his death, he has definitely met his goal now through all of us.

    He will be the 13th juror in that room, kindly guiding the others to see that justice is done.

    Thanks again Donchais.

    • 05/03/2013 at 9:12 pm

      Travis is now in a beautiful, peaceful place where he can visit those 1,000 places and many more. He will also share them with those who have passed before him who love him unconditionally. God bless him. R.I.P Travis Alexander

  31. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 7:31 pm

    Juanderful being Jodi, “He may get away from me in the shower, he may get away from me at the sink, he may get away from me down the hallway, but you know, I caught him.”

  32. donchais
    05/03/2013 at 7:31 pm

    ritanita been out hunting for you…jury schedule for verdict…9 – 4:30 Mon. – Fri.!

  33. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 7:32 pm

    SO since pervy wurmi some how blocked Juan mentioning the lack of remorse, can he bring that up during the next phase??

    • Elexa
      05/03/2013 at 7:35 pm

      As I read it, it will be decided during the penalty phase whether or not he can bring up the remorse or lack thereof.

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:36 pm

        Either aggravator or penalty phase. Right now, to show remorse means she does not believe her own defense — justified killing.

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:50 pm

      think it’s pretty darn obvious she lacks remorse… just look at the smirks, sniggers and “Oh.. I don’t even know if his neck was slashed then* smirk [ain’t I great I gotchya on that one didn’t I Juan!]

      yeah she’s got less remorse than a great white shark.

  34. HJ Madison
    05/03/2013 at 7:35 pm

    OK … they are done for the day and back on Monday!

  35. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 7:37 pm

    Irie Girl :
    Donchais, thank you for this blog, it has been amazing!
    Did anyone else hear Nurmi allude to the juror members that asked so many questions, “we’ll they’re no longer here”. What.a.douche. Talk about blatant manipulation. I don’t fault the defense for having work ethic and trying to provide a vigorous defense, but I do think the lack of personal character they’ve displayed is grotesque.

    I missed that! I was zoning in and out when he was talking. Tell me more. Please!

    • Irie Girl
      05/03/2013 at 10:29 pm

      Since I assume the other jurors aren’t told why CEO and the lady got dismissed, I think that Nurmi was trying to suggest it had to do with the subject their questions and that there were so many of them. I have forgotten the exact wording but the context implied that they were frivolous questions about Arias’s details, or lack there of. It felt like a subliminal warning.
      Maybe, I am making too much of it, but I honestly believed that suggestions that the defense was targeting jurors asking certain questions was unlikely. Evidently I was wrong.

      • Ci Ci's Circle
        05/04/2013 at 12:30 am

        We thought the same thing when he made that comment about the jurors no longer with them. He made it sound like the questions he was alluding to were theirs. What a jackass!!

  36. truejustice
    05/03/2013 at 7:39 pm

    Troy Hayden @troyhaydenfox10
    Just talked to Juan Martinez. Asked him what he’s going to do until the verdict. He said “Just hang out.” #JodiArias #FOX10

    • 05/03/2013 at 7:53 pm

      Told ya that’s where MMD is…. she’s flown down to hang out with him!

      • HJ Madison
        05/03/2013 at 7:57 pm

        I hope! Can’t believe she would miss his rebuttal for any other reason!

      • Moon
        05/03/2013 at 7:57 pm

        bet she even took him a matching pair of red flannels!

  37. truejustice
    05/03/2013 at 7:41 pm

    Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 6m
    Jury is going home for the day. Heading back to the office now. Oh Beth confirmed her lovely dresses are by Elie Tahari. See you guys later!

  38. Bridget Bergeron
    05/03/2013 at 7:48 pm

    Text Breaking to 23765 Ax verdict alert

  39. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 7:54 pm

    gotta go catch the hln for a bit…

    sooo many emotions going on right now..

    tc all
    ~ peace~

  40. Katie
    05/03/2013 at 7:55 pm

    Hello everyone 🙂 I have never posted but I have read every entry and all replies from the beginning. You all have given me hope throughout, because I believe in her guilt, and I want justice for Travis.

    I’m posting because I need your help to get some hope back! I am concerned about some of the holes nurmi was working to poke into the states case. He talked about why didn’t jodi kill him right away if that’s what she planned all along? Why didn’t she kill him when he didn’t see it coming when his back was turned to her in the shower. Travis’ throat was not yet slit when that picture was taken.

    Now I completely believe there are good answers to all of those crappy insinuations. But what worries me, and maybe I missed it, but I didn’t hear Juan dispute those theories. So do you think that those thoughts put reasonable doubt about first degree murder in the juries minds? I LOVE Juan, but I am nervous his rebuttal didn’t get everything across? Not trying to doubt!! I’m just so scared that jodi will get 2nd degree or a million times worse, manslaughter

    • 05/03/2013 at 8:07 pm

      she didn’t hit him in the back because

      1. I believe she was doing the psycho poses and it wasn’t part of the plan.

      2. If she thrust the knife into bone a la most of the 9 cluster wounds on his back he would have spun around and disarmed her.

      3. She likely didn’t have the gun there anyhow.

      How the jury sees it.. is anyone’s guess but that’s my 3 biggies on that.

      The point about his throat slit.. I’m not understanding your question there sorry.

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:09 pm

        no idea how Juan addressed that.. maybe someone else will help you out there. Think he just reiterated where he said the attack took place.. and said the defense was just smokescreening. Which of course they were.

      • Katie
        05/03/2013 at 8:15 pm

        Hi Syn! I’ve been following your comments the most! 🙂 and smiled like an idiot when I saw you replied haha

        I’ve agreed with all of the theories you have put forward, and I wish the jury had the psycho analogy to consider, but, alas, they don’t.

        The slit throat question is about how nurmi said “and dr horn was forced to admit that you can’t hold your head up with your throat slit. And in this picture here, (whatever item number it was), we can see Travis has his head and arm up”

        Now I don’t believe for a second what the defense was trying to do there, but does it put doubt in the mind of the jurors about what the state has said about the timeline? And does that even matter?

        I am only trying to get everyone’s expertise, because I am not trial savvy, or have any knowledge about how the law works in relation to the jury. And I really enjoy reading what y’all have to say

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:26 pm

        ok.. well myself and a couple of other devotess have spent hours on that photo. We have scoured the web to find the best shots we could and comparative postion photos too.

        What we have come to believe is that shot is actually her in the act of slicing his neck. She is holding up his head and the camera dangles low and takes that shot. The blood over his shoulder is still running down to the carpet it hasnt even properly reach the floor.

        Try to source the pictures yourself and look really closely.. it’s horrific. Try not to think about what you are looking at in any way but objectively because the horror of the reality of it is almost too much to take in.

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 8:29 pm

        in my best MMD impersonation…hands on hips…go to bed, bad girl!

      • 05/03/2013 at 8:31 pm

        LMAO going mum (mom) 😀

        luv ya girl!! Plse take care!!! *hands on hips* 😛

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 8:37 pm

        LOL, Irish background…know what mum means 🙂

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 10:18 am

        I agree with you Syn, although your first reason didn’t get into court; after seeing the similarities in poses with the movie, I believe she was doing that too.
        Your second reason is the most compelling for jurors, although Juan didn’t mention it in his closing argument rebuttal, I think he probably trusts the jury is smart enough to figure it out. If she stabbed Travis in the back, he’d be able to turn around and respond. She couldn’t be sure of hitting an organ or of doing real damage by stabbing him in the back.
        Better to wait till he was in the more vulnerable state of sitting down and go directly for the heart, like Juan said.
        As far as your third reason, don’t you think it’s possible she did have the gun on her or directly behind her, so she could kill him if things got out of hand?

      • 05/04/2013 at 10:23 am

        I dont think the first can be argued in court.. I know I wouldnt bring it in.. it’s to ‘consipiracy theory’ and unless you understand her psychopathology I can understand it’s very hard to believe.

        I’d stay away from it for that reason in court.. but in my line it’s crucial in explaining her twisted way of thinking.

    • 05/03/2013 at 9:35 pm

      To #129 Katie-

      I agree With you Katie! I was esp nervous about that. Then I thought of a good reason why she didn’t kill him when he was asleep or at 4:00am when she got there, etc. She didn’t do it during those times because someone was always home until I believe 3:30-4 on June 4th. I was surprised and upset that Juan didn’t touch on that. I’m worried the jurors are thinking that the defense made a good point.

      Another thing Nurmi touched on was the receipts she had saved. He asked why she would save them and leave a paper trail if she were on a covert mission? I don’t recall Juan touching on that either. I was thinking maybe she saved them for her PLL business receipts for travel expenses. Some companies require you to hand in the receipts in order to receive your reimbursement. That would have been a possibility no?

      The last concern I had was his issue with the gas cans. Why didn’t she buy them with cash rather than borrow from DB? It’s true, it doesn’t make sense. It’s only a $12 and no trail.

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 10:26 am

        I never thought of that, Bailey, that she didn’t kill him during the night because someone would be home! I always thought it was because she wanted to give him one more chance to change his mind re: taking her to Cancun and/or winning him over with sex. Maybe both of those are true.
        I’ve been upset about things I think Juan left out too. I think he must really trust this jury. He thinks they’re smart, and he thinks they’ll put it all together.
        He also did a really good job of going over the instructions and of preempting Nurmi’s closing argument by focusing on Travis as the victim. Juan was so calm; he must be pretty confident.

      • 05/04/2013 at 10:58 pm

        Yes Lisa I agree too. I think she was hoping for that one last chance with him and C

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      05/04/2013 at 12:26 am

      We truly believe that her intent was to kill him in the shower, however she never expected him to fight back as he did. Once she stabbed him the chest he was still able to get up (and probably did lunge at her), however by that time he was already choking on the blood pooling in his lungs from that stab wound to the main artery to the heart. JM pointed out that he left hand print smears on the sink as he was standing there coughing up the blood he was choking on (he showed the sprays of blood on the mirror). Although she stabbed him in the chest while in front of him it was probably so fast and suddenly that he didn’t see it coming.

      JM also pointed out that she didn’t kill him “right away” because there was a roommate there (per the police report). She could not just go in there blasting and risk being caught by the roommate. She had to wait for the right time that would give her enough time to do the deed and get out again before the roommate returned from work the next day. Based on the time stamps on the pictures and the time the roommate said he returned she was cutting it really close. Hence the mess she left behind….she didn’t have time to finish the clean-up….which also she was not expecting to have such a mess because he fought back furiously. Juan also pointed this out.

      It cannot be determined for a fact if TA’s neck had not been cut at the time of the photo, however there are many who feel this shot is either just before or in the process of doing it. Nurm the Wurm said that TA was holding his head up and his arm up, however, that’s just his take on it. The fact that she did it is what is more important and JM alluded to that as well. JM added that she was dragging him back to the shower also.

      Only two people know what really happened in there and one of them is dead. The other is such a liar that in years to come if she decides to spill her guts before she gets the needle, everyone will still be asking the question, “how can we believe her now?” But mark OUR words, she will never give anyone the satisfaction of the truth because in her warped mind she’ll still think she “beat” TA…..which was her goal all along!!

      Trust in JM….he covered every point that was of importance. To overdo it would have muddied the water even more. That’s what the DUH-fence wanted to do but JM showed them up!!

      • donchais
        05/04/2013 at 12:36 am

        My take? She had no idea the body, even after death, would convulse and continue to emit gurgling sounds. One of the CSI even said, on the stand, after they found Travis (5 days later)…decomp gases were still emitting gurgling sounds from the throat. She freaked and panicked and that’s why the evil one slipped and said in interrogation, “he just wouldn’t die”!!!!

      • 05/04/2013 at 1:33 am

        Thank you so much for your response (and everyone else too). I missed some of Juan’s closing and some of today’s rebuttal so I was very worried about those things I mentioned. You have all made me feel much better and now I can sleep tonight 🙂 I love all your thoughts, theories, clues and the funny things you all say. This is a great board and I’m so happy I found it! Just wish it was sooner. I guess better late than never.

        Donchais you are a gem for doing this. You have saved many a heart attacks lol…there are times my DVR didn’t work and I was ready to call 911 because I missed parts of the trial! Thank god I found this page. 😉

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 10:32 am

        CiCi, I must have missed it when Juan said she didn’t kill him right away because a roommate was there. Was that in the opening argument, or the trial proper? (It wasn’t in his closing argument, was it?)
        Also, your comments made me think of the reason why she shot him last in a new way. Why didn’t I think of this before? She never intended to shoot him first, because she didn’t want a gunshot to be heard. She only shot him at the end because she panicked and needed to make sure he was dead.
        Of course! I’ve always believed the gun was a backup but I never put it together in terms of she would be reluctant to use the gun because someone could hear it. Seems so obvious to me now.

    • Kathy A.
      05/05/2013 at 10:49 am

      I think also, as psycho as JA is, she didn’t attack him while his back was turned or even while he was asleep because she wanted him to be fully aware of what was happening, and that he knew he was dying at her hands – she had all the control, she was “winning.” Break up with her? Take someone else to Cancun? Oh, hell no! She would show him! Additionally, not that this point was brought up, but the defense said that the chaos of the scene was proof that she didn’t plan the murder. I don’t agree with that at all. I believe she had a scenario in her head as to how things were supposed to go down, and she didn’t anticipate that Travis’s survival instinct would kick in and he would fight her or that he wouldn’t die immediately.

  41. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 8:01 pm

    Hi and welcome aboard.
    She didn’t kill him with a quick gun to the head because she is evil and wanted to see him suffer, know why he was dying and who was in control. She is evil.

    • Katie
      05/03/2013 at 8:05 pm

      Thank you so much for replying, and I so very much agree with you! For me, that’s so unbelievably clear. But did Juan get that across in the rebuttal? Will the jury see that?

      • JesusFreak
        05/03/2013 at 8:07 pm

        I really think he did. He was going thru the Murder one charges and telling the jurors that Jodi ann arias did do each thing.
        He completed his thoughts. Nurmi did not.

      • Katie
        05/03/2013 at 8:17 pm

        Thanks jesusfreak 🙂

      • Irie Girl
        05/03/2013 at 10:59 pm

        I think his roommates were home weren’t they? Or could have come home. I think she only had a window of time when she could be confident of privacy. I personally think all the times, except the time stamps (from the camera’s internal hard drive are the only other verifiable times) have been mistaken. I have read many posts therorizing the crime using tiny pieces of what came from Arias. I think that using even a single word from her mouth makes any therory bunk. It is circular logic. She is a liar and liars lie. Not only is she a liar but she is a prolific liar. She has timing inconsistencies both before the pictures of Travis dead and after.
        In two years we can check Google earth for her car in his driveway (or behind his house) but until then I don’t think anyone will know the how or why. I think the jury will have to be somewhat myopic and disregard the blah blah blah of the defense. I have faith they will. Her foulness seeps through my computer screen, it has to be putrid in the court room.

  42. Moon
    05/03/2013 at 8:01 pm

    donchais :impact statements come just before the sentencing phase

    thanks donchais… is the reason the sentencing takes 30 – 60 just a red tape issue??

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 8:11 pm

      no, judge has to review mitigators and aggravators as well as impact statements before sentencing.

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 1:10 am

        ahhh ok tysm for the answers!!!

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 8:23 pm

      Donchais …. not to question … but 16A A.R.S.Rule of Crim Proc. Rule 19 spells out aggravation phase followed by penalty phase. Then sentancing later. Is that incorrect?

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 8:25 pm

        yes, penalty lays out what the judge has the option to sentence.

  43. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 8:09 pm

    Katie, near the first of the trial, I think, one of our lawyers told us that Az law allowed for the juries to try to get a judgment. I am sure if this one can’t, one of the next two will, I think.

    Whoever told us that, please refresh our memories on it. Thanks.

  44. JesusFreak
    05/03/2013 at 8:10 pm

    Should have said one of 3 juries to try for a judgment. HELP!

  45. Kathy A.
    05/03/2013 at 8:11 pm

    HJ Madison :
    True: Is it ever “humid” in AZ???

    Yes, especially in central/southern Arizona from about July to mid-September when we have our monsoon season, where it rains just about every afternoon and the humidity goes up.

    • CathyP
      05/04/2013 at 1:45 am

      Thanks for letting me in on that Kathy – I just moved to AZ so am still learning the ins and outs around here! BTW HJ Madison, I am a Wisconsin girl originally.

      • kristin
        05/04/2013 at 11:14 pm

        As am I. Where bouts?

      • Kathy A.
        05/05/2013 at 11:05 am

        You’re welcome, and welcome to Arizona. What part of the state are you in?

  46. 05/03/2013 at 8:22 pm

    okies my caffeine buzz and adrenaline from the Juanster have dissipated so time for me to ready myself for some zzzzzzzz’s

    thank you all for your company over this trial it’s really made it so much more interesting, bearable and loads of fun mixed in. You have all been great ambassadors for your country too I have a broader perspective on the US than I did when I joined this blog. I thank you all for that too.

    I will check back in on Monday. You all have a great weekend!! 😀


    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 8:23 pm

      ****waves**** back and thx for your input!

      • CathyP
        05/04/2013 at 1:45 am

        Ditto! You too donchais!

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 8:25 pm

      MONDAY!! Not once over the weekend? What if we hear from Juror #8? You are a better woman than I. Thanks again for your insight. Have a nice weekend. 😊

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      05/03/2013 at 11:47 pm

      Thank you Syntara for all your knowledge and having the patience to explain more than once! Get some well needed rest!

  47. Allison
    05/03/2013 at 8:37 pm

    Syntara :
    Donchais…. I want to thank you for what you have provided us. Not only excellent wrap ups each and every trial day but also a place to keep sane through this ordeal.
    You have touched many of us just by being you. Thank you so much.

    I second this. You have welcomed me and helped me understand my questions. 🙂

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 8:38 pm


  48. Lisa M
    05/03/2013 at 8:44 pm

    Guys, I know I’m sometimes critical of Juan, and believe me, it’s only because I want a first-degree verdict so badly!! And I know, it’s easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but I just have to bring up a couple of points. First of all, I think his quotation of John Donne’s poem “Any man’s death diminishes me… don’t ask for whom the bell tolls…” could have been effective but his delivery wasn’t good, and therefore it wasn’t. Okay, he’s a lawyer, not an English lit professor; fine, then just leave the poetry alone.

    And maybe I’m beating a dead horse, because I’ve brought this up before but I think he would have done better in his rebuttal closing argument if he’d reminded everyone of the things Jodi did immediately after her so-called “fog” lifted as his final coup de grace: making the phone calls to Travis’ phone, not calling 911 even though she supposedly didn’t know he was dead, throwing out the gun. Yes, going to see Ryan, he mentioned. And that is very damning, it’s true.There are other things that show her covering up the murder– her journal writings post-Travis’ murder saying ” Travis, what is this? What happened?” etc. [okay, maybe the DT could use the Secret to explain that, but there’s NO plausible explanation for those voice messages other than a coverup of murder] Don’t know if Juan mentioned those post-crime journal entries.

    I am very glad he mentioned the secret messages today, though. That was great.

    And this whole question about how it doesn’t make sense that she didn’t take the camera with her. To me, it makes perfect sense. She knew if his camera was missing it would cast suspicion on her– all his friends knew that she’s a photographer, and she knew that his friends didn’t like her, that they mistrusted her. In hindsight yes, it would have been better for her if she didn’t leave the camera, but she didn’t know that at the time.

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 8:56 pm

      The only response I can make is, in a limited amount of time to present, you pick what you consider to be the best of the best. The prosecutor has been doing this for a very long time, wins the vast majority of his cases and I, myself, won’t second-guess him…am trusting in his expertise and the vast number of guilty verdicts he has won. He has shown when is the proper time to bring things out and to avoid the minor things that will put a jury to sleep! Have faith!

      • Gwen
        05/03/2013 at 10:10 pm

        Donchais, do you happen to know Juan’s trial record. I’ve heard very good….how good?


      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 1:14 am

        ahhhh, so so true!

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 10:37 am

        Okay, Donchais! You’re right as usual! As I’m reading other other people’s posts here, I’m hearing others say the same thing, why didn’t Juan say this or that? And I even think points are as compelling or more compelling than the one I made above. But of course, you’re right, Juan knows much better than all of us how to prosecute a capital case! And we must have faith.

  49. jad
    05/03/2013 at 9:00 pm

    PART I

    THIS IS CONJECTURE. PLEASE READ AT YOUR OWN RISK. SINCE SPECULATION CAN IMPAIR A LINE OF THOUGHT, THIS SHOULD NOT BE READ UNLESS FIRST ACKNOWLEDGING THIS IS PURE CONJECTURE. In addition, this is not meant to insult any person or attack any person’s faith. This is just that which has been thought should be discussed — because the possibility is there that some or all thought [developed] could have been used by Jodi Arias, especially since it was her friend [Bryan Carr, who is not that bright] who first mentioned such a possibility. After seeing the defense by the criminal lawyers was not heading in the way that would exonerate Jodi Arias, this particular story began to make its rounds. When Bryan Carr tried to tell Nancy Grace about what he knew about Blood Atonement, she would not let him speak and he was cut off. So, the way that the story was being told did not get a full coverage. So, the story can not be taken apart in a way that is helpful. This particular story was born out of a time in the case when it was not going well for the defense. With the storage of so much of the details of the case on the Internet, this can be verified. It was felt that there was actual trepidation [in the criminal lawyers’ minds] in going forward in the case, and Jodi Arias probably started to spin her wheels to pave the road for what she felt was needed to get her way in the Appellate Courts.

    The story that had started to spread seemed to wrap around what was needed that could be used with a Motion for Ineffective Assistance of Counsel or a grounds for a New Trial to be ordered at the appellate level — based on the absurdity of the defense case presented by a duo of Court-appointed boobs, for defense counsel. There has been a wealth of droppings in this case that points to the possibility of such a presentment for that type of Motion. The criminal lawyer today stated in Open Court he had a dislike of his client. That was totally unnecessary, but it would assist his client to get a New Trial, when used with other information with which he has peppered his case. It seems he is not interested in presenting the truth or to seek justice of the cause. THIS CRIMINAL LAWYER WANTS TO BE WINNING. That might be the reason he made the statement that he did not like her nine days out of ten. This statement, together with other statements he had offered or has had others offer, does nothing for the case at present, but it will help towards a future case. A sworn witness, Richard Samuels (who had somehow become an expert witness in the case), made a statement that he and this same criminal lawyer (whose fields both revolved around sexual matters) had gotten together to convince Jodi Arias they thought she was lying. From this, his declaration for the record was that they had developed a new [sex-filled] story that would be used (even though it would not jibe with his diagnosis of her as a person with a MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER, like a Sybil or Three Faces of Eve). It appeared that all bases were being covered to help Jodi Arias walk. This has included what seems to be a very methodical route to the use of certain information that could be used to get her a New Trial (which would put the State in line to enter and make a deal with this devil to save the taxpayers a tremendous amount of money that a New Trial would call for).

    Bryan Carr’s story was one he had heard from Jodi Arias. He was trying to get on the talk shows to lay down this new information (to help this woman he had bonded with over her stories of domestic violence and abused sex toy). Out of fright, her supporters had inadvertently given information that Jodi Arias knew more than she did about that which she was accusing others. In order for Jodi Arias to talk about blood atonement, she had to know about it. If she knew about this type of penalty, she would know about other penalties. She would have to have knowledge of the information in order to talk about it. It certainly was not Bryan Carr that was feeding this information to her. There is no way that the ignorant could hold any knowledge of these rites (that existed in the distant past). None of these people are historians. So, there should have been no extant knowledge. Additionally, nothing has been brought up about the Masons, so that is not a way that Jodi Arias or any of her Associates (either jailbird or clingers-on) could have had knowledge of these symbols that they could [in turn] have related to her so that she could use them in her various art works.

    If a visit is made to the United States to see Masonic symbology, visit the City Of Brotherly Love [and one of the former capitals of the United States], Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. There are other reasons that anyone would want to visit the City. However, it is rich in history, and it is close to other historic sites of interest. Its placement can be taken advantage of, and a stay in the City could be used as the first point to hop on over to Boston and quite a few other areas of historic significance [with so many other points of interests in between]. However, you would probably be able to get your feet wet with a visit to Philadelphia if seeking out tales of Masonic lore.

    On a page from the other day [as # 217, at 11:56 P.M. on April 5, 2013, continued], Chrissie A gave you a site, Syntara. She gave the address to that site so that you would be able to correlate the meanings of drawings that had been doodled by Jodi Arias, of that “blackened-eyed SNOW WHITE portrait”, that sold on E-Bay in January of this year. You had expressed a desire to gather an understanding as to why Jodi Arias would have put those expressive doodles together with the depiction that symbolized her defense (of being a battered woman [suffering PTSD] because of the torment inflicted by her Prince Charming). At that site, you would have been able to understand that she had a deeper knowledge of the Mormon faith than she had portrayed.

    That web address, posted by Chrissie A, for Mormon symbols, is at http://www.inplainsite.org/html/masonic_and_mormon_symbols.html
    This web site contains an explanation for the origins of the BEEHIVE, the INVERTED PENTAGRAM, and the ALL-SEEING EYE. Just the fact that these were drawn [on the same sheet of paper] by Jodi Arias shows that she was knowledgeable of these symbols. If she had an interest in these symbols [as had been expressed in her drawing], she probably found other information. One thing for a fact is that she knew that these symbols were able to be depicted together.

    On that web page, scroll down (about eight to nine-tenths) to a section titled the Temple Endowment Ceremony [the Masonic Roots of Mormonism]. Scroll down a little further to the highlighted areas of “Mormon text”. The first speaks to “the penalty for revealing the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood”. The second speaks to “the penalty for revealing the second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood”. Then, scroll almost to the bottom. There is this statement: “The opening at the navel is symbolic of the evisceration penalty for disclosing Mormon secrets”.

    What Jodi Arias knew of the faith Travis Alexander maintained is critical to understanding what she did to him and why. All who post here already know of the deep love Mr. Alexander had for his faith, and they know of his unshakable commitment to that faith. Daniel Freeman had described the position that Mr. Alexander held in the [LDS] Church in the beginning of the day of the twelfth day of Trial testimony. (This was immediately after he corrected the dates he was on his Mission and had described when he was a roommate of Mr. Alexander during the time that Mr. Alexander dated Jodi Arias). He explained Mr. Alexander’s position in the Church, by describing certain facets of the Church itself. He talked a little about the Aaronic and Malchezidik Priesthoods [which, respectively, are the Lesser Priesthood, where there are Deacons, Teachers, and Priests, and the Greater Priesthood, where there are Elders and High Priests].

    Mr. Freeman had made the statement that [usually] the Aaronic Priesthood is a younger Priesthood [which is until the age of 18, unless you join later in life]. Upon turning 18, a person in the Aaronic Priesthood would be deemed an Elder. As an Elder, a person would have the ability to baptize and to give the Holy Ghost. Travis was an Elder of the Church, who had graduated [from the First and Second Aaronic Priesthoods] to the Greater Priesthood holding of the Malchezidik. At this level, it appears Mr. Alexander had reached his glass ceiling unless he were to marry. So, marriage for him would have involved much more than family. It would have been more of his devotion and commitment to his Church, to his faith. That is the reason he was only interested in dating Mormon women. His peer group would have been made up of members of the Church, and, although Jodi Arias had been baptized (whereupon Mr. Alexander could have dated her), she could not yet attend Temple because she had not yet been a member for [the prescribed period of] one year.

    In the mind of a particular psychopath [with a fetish for religious rites], this type of information can be dangerous to an innocent person, who as a person of faith [such as being a Mormon] is thought (by the twisted, demented mind of this psychopath, Jodi Arias) to need ritualistic punishment (for perceived violations to his faith). Since it is believed that [besides being a sexual deviant and predator] she is a sadist, involved in acts of depravity like those enjoyed by [the San Diego, California based spree killer] the psychopath Andrew Cunanan, she would have used what she could discover to her advantage, in any rite or ritual her nightmarish mind would have dreamt up (or conjured with her magical thinking or spirituality shared with those self-professed “CHARMED” persons). A web site about Andrew Cunanan is located at http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Andrew_Cunanan In a review of the manner these psychopaths function, some other similarities [besides the actual proof of the non-functioning brain discovered by Bob Hare] can be found that connect these demonic creatures.

    There are a lot of similarities between this psychopath [Andrew Cunanan] and the psychopath Jodi Arias. These are the same as those with Casey Anthony, including a low way of recognizing the father [who is perceived to be a failure], a simmering undercurrent of intense dislike for the mother [that includes lashing out physically], using sex to propel them through life [whether long-standing or a line of hook-ups], not being able to hold down a job [which makes them dependent on other means to pay their way], not recognizing the rights of others [which lines them up with criminal acts used to exploit any one they should run across that can be manipulated to benefit the needs of the psychopath], and [naturally] always putting themselves above all others (because these psychopaths [as MALIGNANT NARCISSISTS] hold an unshakable belief that they are better than everyone else [even though it can be easily established that the opposite is the truth]).

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 1:26 am

      wow Jad, that is downright spooky…

      seriously, wow… i am freaked out

    • 05/04/2013 at 7:18 am

      jad.. quite some time ago I investigated those doodles. That was when I made a post about the masonic roots of LDS.

      You must have missed it… very unlike you 😀

      • 05/04/2013 at 7:23 am

        😳 you may just be referencing it… my bad.. I can’t believe you would have missed it so now thinking I misinterpreted your meaning. La LaToilette should take note, it is very easy to miss tone or inflection in the written word! 😉

    • 05/04/2013 at 7:31 am

      OMG jad!!!!! “The opening of the navel is symbolic…”

      the ‘gutting’ I mentioned just the other day! The almost 6 inch slash across his stomach!! ok I need to makes notes and read this or Im gonna end up making 4645573 comments.. sorry everyone!

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 4:39 pm

        Juan did talk about how she gutted him in his close, and I thought it was an extreme word to use, but gutting it is, I guess.

    • 05/04/2013 at 10:53 am

      Absolutely fascinating Jad! From your coverage of the legal shenanigans applied to this case, (which is the foremost information I seek in any trial) you have taken the time to explain the entwined complexities of the psychopathic behavior of this predator who will use any avenue to fulfill her objective. Also a wonderful insight into the religion that she ultimately used as an attempted tool to blindside her dastardly deeds. Do you by chance have a blog where I could read more of your observations as I am bewitched by your writings? Bravo!!!

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 1:11 pm

      JAD- Amazing information. I didn’t know any of that. Just so you know, Juan objected to Nurmi’s comment of “hating Jodi 9 days out of 10”. The objection was sustained and Juan also asked that his comment be stricken from the record, which the Judge ordered. So that means that comment will not be available to use as any part of an Appeal.
      And just so everyone knows, it is completely normal for ALL convicted criminals to make a motion for a re-trial prior to sentencing. It’s something that kind of has to be done as a Pre-cursor to an Appeal. So don’t get worried when you see this motion from the defense. I guarantee it will get denied by Judge Stevens.

  50. Kristy
    05/03/2013 at 9:02 pm

    I trust Juan implicitly. He tried to narrow the focus. He tried to simplify things. I do wish he’d focused on the bs reason for being in Southern California. Without that reason, she’s got no reason to be there. Also, why wasn’t there a slew of photos taken along the way?

  51. jad
    05/03/2013 at 9:03 pm



    It seems these psychopaths do not show themselves as persons that one would or should be wary of. The self-effacing persona makes them appear shy and non-threatening. Like the psychopath Ted Bundy, these other psychopaths do not first strike their prey in a brutal, rage-filled manner. They are methodical. They are not the type that become enraged at a bar after one too many, and immediately lash out. They do not instantly pick a fight if someone makes them feel anger. They are like snakes, waiting for the perfect time to strike. They wait for the right time, when they know the prey is cornered, when only the psychopath can WIN. They are able to hold their anger in (without any one able to see it [in their dead, soulless eyes] or feel the psychopath’s stillness of the turmoil beneath the surface). Only when the deep emotion is released [on the person preyed upon] can the demonstration of their rage be exhibited and actually seen [for the first time, even though that rage born out of vindictiveness has been there much, much longer].

    If a baseball bat or object that can disable is used [as an instrument of pain or aggression], it is used only if the psychopath already knows the victim is incapacitated [tied up, bound, etc. or unaware] and can not win, can not come out the better. Ted Bundy would invade the residence of a person he had chosen to rape, sodomize, and kill. But, [it has been documented that] his home invasion would not occur until he knew the victim was asleep and would be unaware of his strike (and unable to fend off the killing blow). Only if he was assured the person could not win [once the brutal attack had started] would he occupy the premises and strike. As a skillful psychopath in the throes of a need to reinforce his superiority, he would make sure there was no way that his [well-thought out choice of] victim would be able to come out the winner. So, Ted Bundy would first bludgeon his victim to unconsciousness or death, even if the victim was so elderly and weak (it was plain there would have been no strength to fight an attacker) lived alone and in an area where no one would hear the assault or have any way of knowing of the assault. It was only after decommissioning his prey that he would [perform his ritualistic acts, to] rape and sodomize the person chosen to be his victim. Sometimes, he kept the body around to dress the corpse and make the appearances presentable for whatever he had in mind, to socialize with his chosen target, or to commit acts of necrophilia [with his chosen one].

    He was pleased with the commission of these acts because those he chose no longer had confusion when being around him. They would not be troubled with a fight against him — and they could accept the solution. Although putting others in a more suitable place, his belief would be that those he chose to overcome would know it was not any of them who had bested him. He was the one in control — all-powerful, always the winner. His superiority placed him in the winner’s circle, where [at all times and for all time] there was no alternative then to see that it was he who would come out on top. No one could beat him in his ways. No one could ever be successful in going up against him (once he made up his mind that he was going to have the one he chose). The way he could make sure of this [constant of a winning ability] was to always incapacitate the victim before striking (with the method he was most familiar with that belonged to him and him alone).

    In understanding the ways of a psychopath, a conclusion can be drawn that Jodi Arias would not have used a gun in the ritual (that involved punishment for and by the victim’s faith). While a gun has been used by psychopaths, like Charles Rathbun when anally sodomizing his victim in California and Ted Bundy when also anally sodomizing his victim, a gun does not seem to be a weapon of choice for the kill. A gun is used to penetrate for a sexual act or to make the victim more compliant (wherein the psychopath could make the victim do things against the person’s will for fear the gun will be used otherwise). The gun was merely there to hold the victim at bay until ready to become a part of the sordid ritual of Jodi Arias [in a similar fashion to the style of used by other psychopaths]. (Whether she used the gun to perform sexual acts on the body of Mr. Alexander, either dead, alive, or both, has not been made a part of this case.) It would have been helpful if more information were released about the use or nonuse of the gun on the body of Mr. Alexander. Without that information (on a way the gun was used on the body), all things must be considered. So, it is possible that Jodi Arias did have a plan to use the gun in the ritualistic slaying of Mr. Alexander. However, it does not appear that the gun shot to the right temple would have been a part of her ritual.

    The shooting is believed to have been either unintentional [with the gun going off while she held it] or to prevent him [in his deceased state] from continuing to gurgle in the throes of death. While, at the start, the gun would have been necessary to frighten her victim in such a way that he would not have fought [even if he would have been bound at the ankles or weakened from an assault], it does not seem that the gun was a weapon of choice to be used in her little ritual. It is clear that the killing was premeditated, if one takes into consideration these outdated formal rites when examining the wounds of the body. They match-up, and the fact that a close Associate of Jodi Arias (Bryan Carr) spoke of certain penalties point to the killing to have been performed in a ritualistic fashion, albeit by Jodi Arias NOT a gang of Mormons, as the Associate has tried to portray.

    The fact that Mr. Alexander was a [Temple] garment-wearing Mormon was undisputed. His faith meant more to him than even his life. Because his faith meant the world to him, Jodi Arias must have assumed that it was his faith that prevented him from marrying her. Because of the conclusion she might have drawn (about there being absolutely no opportunity for a marriage between them), she might have wanted to punish both Mr. Alexander as well as his faith. Still and all, there has to be more to it than that, since Mr. Alexander found something out about her that made him ill. He had been very close to her. So, whatever it was that he found out was shared with her when he told her she could no longer be in his life in any way, shape, or form. Whatever he discovered, it seemed he would definitely let the information be known so that no one else would suffer from whatever the evil was that was known. However, he did not realize that Jodi Arias would do anything she could to stay in her Mormon community. She had found a place of sanctuary, and she must have thought that if she silenced Mr. Alexander she could continue in her little happy hunting ground.

    Her devious mind came to a conclusion that she would rather kill Mr. Alexander than let him destroy her life. Whether she had help or not would depend on exactly what it was that Mr. Alexander had discovered about her that woke him up to her evil ways and what he deemed in her nature to be a “sociopath”. That description would not have come naturally to him. There is something about her that has not yet come out that he had discovered. The time was coming when he had to reveal it. So, she turned the tables on him. And, she decided that it was Mr. Alexander who had to be ousted and punished. She had to really study his faith to read about the tokens and accompanying penalties for revealing the tokens. Her knowledge would have consisted of being familiar with the penalties a patron would acknowledge could have been suffered if one were to reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, or the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood [or Sign of the Nail].

    The steps she was going to take for her punishment of him had been planned long in advance. This would explain the knife plunge to the heart [to cut the breast open], stab to the gut area [so that the body be cut asunder], and slicing of the throat [when suffering one’s life to be taken]. She knew of the penalties meted out as punishment for divulging information against the OATH taken. There was a penalty for revealing the first Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, wherein, if the secret was revealed, the consequence would be that their throats would be “cut from ear to ear”. There was a penalty for revealing the second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, wherein, if the secret was revealed, the consequence would be to “have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn”. There was a penalty for revealing the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, wherein, if the secret was revealed, the consequence was that “bodies be cut asunder in the midst of all and the bowels gush out”. She might have thrown in the wounds to Mr. Alexander’s back for some slight she imagined, like some name-calling. He might have called her a back stabber when he found out that she was a sociopath. This could have been interpreted by Jodi Arias in a manner that lead her to incorporate the back stabbing in an already ritualistic slaying.

    The wounds delivered by a sharp instrument and the location on the body of all of the wounds show that the killing could have been based on matter she might have read on the Internet. In addition, the number of wounds [combined with a finding that the killing was ritualistic] seem to show that this sharp bladed instrument, alone, was her weapon of choice. A focus on the gun seems to be a desire of the criminal lawyers, in order that the truth of the matter would be shunted aside [and all steered onto another path]. Since the method she chose to use is so unbelievable, the criminal lawyers could be assured that the people (if not acting in a cohesive fashion) would be unable to put together the way her mind operated. The criminal lawyers would want the people to hold a continuing misunderstanding about the use of the gun. Spinning one’s wheels about a matter that will never have an answer is the confusing arena in which the criminal lawyers have steered the case.

    If this matter, in regards to the gun, could be dropped and everybody agree to disagree on the matter and really delve into those other areas that can produce logical answers with the evidence presented, the tragic death of Travis Alexander could be better understood. Furthermore, if the death of Travis Alexander can bring about a better understanding of this matter of the way that innocent people have been used and abused by the deviant without viable recourse for those victimized (which furthers knowledge about a way to seek protection from psychopaths and the monsters that walk amongst us), something can be born from this tragedy. Jodi Arias was and continues to be recognized as enveloped in an overindulgent protective status that has discarded the person she victimized, since killing her victim seems to have removed the Rights he had. The criminal justice system has denigrated the Rights of all people by treating the dead with such callousness, knowing the ploy used, which is that the innocent, dead victims of crimes have been put on Trial by the defense maneuvers of criminal lawyers. Not only is this a travesty of justice and an affront to those victimized, but this gives the criminal more incentive to kill the victim. If anything comes out of this case, it should be that the criminal justice system should be cleaned up — so that no one suffers in the way the family members of Travis Alexander have had to be burdened. In this way, his death will not be in vain. There is no way to alter what has been done, but there are invaluable lessons that have been learned to make this world a better place, if the information learned could just be put into place.

    • PK
      05/03/2013 at 9:33 pm

      I better watch my back more carefully from this moment forward because I spilled the beans on all of the signs as they appear on Mormon Temple garments years ago. My first and last trip through the Salt Lake Temple was in 1961 when the “temple story” was performed live. On my trip through it was a very good day for the actor playing Satin because he seemed to be the only one who could remember all of his lines. Finally, when I was pulled through to the Celestial Kingdom, it was a very awkward moment for me since the guy on the other side of the Veil was very short and apparently not accustomed to reaching for a very tall guy like me. The refreshments were acceptable though at the end of the journey.

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 6:33 pm

        Yeah, PK, you’d better be careful. I had no idea the Mormon church was so secretive and had all these rituals. I really didn’t. I mean, I”m Catholic and God knows there’s rituals in the Catholic church and a violent history (Inquisition anyone?) so I’m not judging. I’m just surprised to learn about this stuff. Maybe I should go see The Book of Mormon!

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      05/03/2013 at 11:13 pm

      Interesting write up! Thank you for sharing your thoughts….very insightful. By the way….we were just wondering what happened to you. We hadn’t seen a post from you in quite a while….or is it just our eyesight? We were curious to read your thoughts of both closing arguments.

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 1:39 am


      i appriciate your time on this.

      this leaves me so scared she is even more evil than i thought (and that was pretty damn evil)

    • 05/04/2013 at 7:55 am

      jad.. my thoughts exactly… now I can just copy your post and save myself endless hours to try to write it up! Your talent to unintentionally elucidate my thoughts is beneficial! I tend to think so fast it’s in there but I can’t be bothered explaining it all!

      We would make a good team.. I give you point form.. you give me the written format! 😀

    • GN5020
      05/04/2013 at 8:10 am

      Because I also have been through the temple rituals, and know the specific “penalties” quoted for divulging those secrets and tokens, I have had nagging thoughts all along that she killed him in a manner representing those (especially cutting the throat). But until you laid it out in writing, I thought I was just being paranoid.

    • 05/04/2013 at 11:51 am

      A purely conjectured response to another fascinating post Jad 🙂 I completely agree with your theory – Alas, I need to digress somewhat and address your quote from a different perspective:

      “She was the one in control — all-powerful, always the winner. Her superiority placed her in the winner’s circle, where [at all times and for all time] there was no alternative then to see that it was she who would come out on top.”

      As our online communications, (and subsequent contacts through various social networks) have a broader base now, I feel it should not be overlooked that the same type of behavior is predominant on many social networking sites, or blogs such as this. If I come across
      anyone that is descriptive of your above quote, I will avoid them like the plague! Thanks again Jad 🙂

    • nyccowgirl
      05/04/2013 at 1:22 pm

      profound…and with that, perhaps her ‘still beat ya’ comment was more to God than to TA. I wish JM would have turned the last part of his rebuttal re: the comment ‘I’m going to kill you b*^$h’ around that it was only TA that was in self defense mode that day because those words were ‘supposedly’ only uttered after she shot him in the face, even according to her version. Similar to his technique of using his version of the gun for premeditated and her version for felony murder, he could have added on to the argument of her lying about those words (as supported by Dr. Horn’s testimony) and reiterating that even with her version, the ‘threat’ occurred after her actions only as to why manslaughter would never be acceptable. I may have missed it but I think he could have also reiterated TA’s calm and generous reaction to WOBO after she ruined the car, which is clearly more valuable than a camera, to support not only that there is ‘no’ evidence of abuse but rather to the contrary of such. But of course this is Monday morning quarterbacking, and I just finished watching the closing arguments (after following all of your play by plays while at work the last few days – thank you) and texted a friend that if I was ever killed, he should make sure JM is speaking on my behalf. And of course that everyone contributing and participating in this blog are my cheerleaders.

      • Anonymous
        05/04/2013 at 7:37 pm

        Hi, I know, I was thinking the same thing about wishing Juan would have made it clear that jodi said that travis said “f-ing kill you b@tch”, AFTER she shot him in the head. That was so important I think.
        All in all, he covered a lot, but I still wonder why he didn’t make it super clear that she claimed travis said that AFTER he was shot in the head. That shows that there was absolutely zero threat to her and that was there was no self defense necessary. If anyone needed self defense, it was poor travis!

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 1:26 pm

      JAD, I’m sorry, but I missed or don’t know your background, but all I can say is your post almost made me cry and I had the chills the whole time I was reading. I can only relate my own experience with a psychopath. And the words you wrote about their type of anger…like a snake, is dead on. My husband was so calm during his crimes against me. He wasn’t in a rage. And you’re also right about the gun. It’s just too impersonal. I’ve never been afraid my husband would kill me with a gun. I know he wants to do it with his own hands. I just know it.
      I had the court-appointed evaluator who psychologically evaluated my husband tell me that it’s not those who are angry like a pit-bull that you have to worry about in a lethal way. They’re all bark. It’s those who are like a cobra. Quiet, calm, calculating, deliberate, and focused. This doctor also said that these psychopathic perpetrators actually have their blood pressure go down as they are committing their crimes. I saw that in my husband. It is beyond scary. Beyond. Thank you for your input.

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 6:29 pm

        Crystal, so sorry you’ve had to deal with a psychopath in your life. What you said about a cobra is exactly how Jodi is: quiet, calm, deliberate, calculating and focused. And she definitely has the cobra tongue!

    • Lisa M
      05/04/2013 at 4:45 pm

      You said by revealing the tokens of the various priesthoods, certain punishments would be meted out. What were these tokens that couldn’t be revealed? Some sort of symbols?

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 6:26 pm

        Never mind, Jad, I looked it up on the Internet. So I learned about their religious significance and they are mentioned during the ritual of the endowment ceremony (which confirms you as an LDS member? Is that anything like a Catholic confirmation?)
        And apparently in 1990 they stopped indicating the symbolic punishment for revealing the tokens during the ceremonies, and those are the punishments you are saying Jodi meted out to Travis. That is very interesting and very creepy. So you really think it was a ritualistic killing? Wow, It sounds kind of crazy, but then again, what she did and how she did it is pretty crazy, and she does seem obsessed with the LDS church. And those wounds do correspond to the ritualistic
        punishments — did they really do any of those things to anyone in the early days of the church or are they purely symbolic?
        Very interesting and food for thought. I think that people don’t want to hear about these kinds of things because they sound so out there– hence, Nancy Grace’s reactions– but when you’re dealing with a psychopath, anything is possible and sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction.

  52. kristin
    05/03/2013 at 9:28 pm

    OK just to clarify things for me, the jury will not deliberate into the weekend? Their deliberation hours are 0900-1630 M-F? Thanks to all y’all:)

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 9:30 pm


      • kristin
        05/03/2013 at 9:53 pm

        Thank u! Is this a typical schedule for most jury deliberations across the US? I’ve escaped jury duty many a time because my husband is still active duty military.

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 9:57 pm

        nope varies…all over the place..mostly due to budgetary restraints…seen way late into the night, weekends etc. Depends on jurisdiction.

      • SeniorMoments
        05/03/2013 at 10:53 pm

        oh, donchais! That “krect” brings back such memories of a long-haired blowsy blond lawyer, since “revised” in appearance!

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 10:57 pm

        LMAO…knew somebody would get it! Glad ya picked up on it…thx!

  53. Allison
    05/03/2013 at 9:35 pm

    I liked what they just said on dr. Drew – Nurmi showed he didn’t believe JA self-defense reason either by not showing compassion for her when he said “9 out of 10 days I don'[t like her either.” If she had been truly a battered person, he would have shown compassion for her. He doesn’t believe her and he showed it to the jury.

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 1:43 am

      someone upstairs mentioned that this was most likely a ploy for future appeals. I think this is why Juan objected and the Judge sustained it. Did they also have it stricken?

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 1:30 pm

        Yes, it was stricken…so no use for Appeal. All Nurmi is left with is the jury knowing he doesn’t like his own battered woman client who was forced to kill in self-defense. Why don’t you like her, Nurmi?

  54. 05/03/2013 at 9:39 pm

    Maybe I’m off but if u look at Nurmi’s statement where he says 9 out of 10 days I don’t even like JA, it seems rehearsed. Her reaction with the smiling/chuckling started before he finished the sentence/complete thought. Do you agree?

    • kristin
      05/03/2013 at 9:55 pm

      Agreed! I don’t believe humor has any place in this trial what so ever. Donchais owns the humor much like the Infantry owns the night lol

      • 05/03/2013 at 9:58 pm

        Agreed. I’m also really trying to say it was part of an act, rehearsed.

      • donchais
        05/03/2013 at 9:59 pm

        yup…another staging!

      • kristin
        05/03/2013 at 10:07 pm

        So we are all sitting on the edge of our seats now. I wonder how JA feels. I only ask because I’ve learned so much from a lot of you guys with a vast psychology background/ educations that I want to know how a person with JAs psychology would be feeling under these circumstances. Would she be as cool as a cucumber thinking she can still win this? Secretly be nervous inside but not showing it? Angry/rage that the jury BETTER believe her?

    • 05/04/2013 at 3:02 am

      And did you see Willnott’s face after that comment? Jodi laughed and JW had a “that was not funny” stone cold face on. Wth is wrong with Nurmi & sicko?? I mean really? Ugh her smirk..I’d love to….since I’m new here I’ll behave. 😉

    • 05/04/2013 at 6:18 am

      Think Jodi was pre warned that Nurmi has said “Look Jodes have to say this, it’s for the sake of the trial” Which is why she thought it was funny. No way if she was unprepared would she have acted that way!!! We ALL know that…

      but! I also think it’s true!!! She just doesn’t realise it! Which made me laugh at her reaction! Soo typical of these types! No idea of truth.

      In my research I deliberately planned a ruse for one of these characters, to gauge reaction.

      I told a ‘story’ that was completely fictitious. I faked crying, faked affect, the lot. The subject showed a normal amount of sympathy for me! Appropriate affect throughout! I was astounded! It was the ONLY time I elicited sympathy from the subject and it was the only time I tested my hypothesis.

      When we discussed genuine, truly heart wrenching incidents I saw no appropriate affect, zero. It’s strange they innately feel more emotion to lies, even when they don’t consciously realise they are being told lies.

      I think that statement by Nurmi was the only outright factual thing he said in the whole trial!!!

      • 05/04/2013 at 2:23 pm

        I thought this was the case and esp. since I’ve heard talk that this instance is cause for appeal based on ineffective counsel.

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 4:51 pm

        I find Nurmi so repulsive that who he likes or dislikes means nothing to me. He himself is so unlikable that I think it shows how arrogant he is that he would think the jury would take any stock in who he likes or doesn’t like. Who cares if a truly unlikeable person doesn’t like another unlikeable person?

  55. PK
    05/03/2013 at 10:16 pm

    kristin :
    So we are all sitting on the edge of our seats now. I wonder how JA feels. I only ask because I’ve learned so much from a lot of you guys with a vast psychology background/ educations that I want to know how a person with JAs psychology would be feeling under these circumstances. Would she be as cool as a cucumber thinking she can still win this? Secretly be nervous inside but not showing it? Angry/rage that the jury BETTER believe her?

    Not a psych with ny of the letters that usually follow, but Jodi will continue thinking no jury will ever convict her until one actually does and then she will be assured in her own mind as usual that finding her guilty was their fault not hers.

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 10:19 pm

      sound ’bout right!

    • kristin
      05/03/2013 at 10:19 pm

      That’s sounds like the WOBO we have grown to know and hate/dislike strongly! Its just so crazy!!! Do u think its a good thing, in the interest of a guilty verdict, that there are more men on the jury?

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 9:16 am

        As for the men on the jury: I’ll just say that men are less easily swayed by emotional arguments. In that regard, I think it’s good to have more men on the jury. I think women are more judgmental of other women, and that could hurt Jodi a lot, too. Either way…1st Degree!!!

      • 05/04/2013 at 11:08 pm

        I thought it was a great thing having mostly men on the jury. I figured being men they might relate to Travis more or some of them may have had similar situations with girlfriends,etc. THEN, my husband came along and said they might be easier on her if they like her or find her attractive. Or may feel bad convicting a woman. Now I’m confused 😦

      • kristin
        05/04/2013 at 11:17 pm

        I hope for justices sake those men aren’t attracted to butt ugly murderesses! A natural beauty she ain’t! Hopefully those pics of her busted looking twazzer were enough to scare the men lol

      • 05/04/2013 at 11:31 pm

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Kristin that was SO funny! You gave me a much needed laugh. Thank you.

  56. Ci Ci's Circle
    05/03/2013 at 10:41 pm

    Old hens here……This was our first time on the internet and we’re glad we found our way here! We learned a lot and the whole group kept us all well informed. Donchais your recaps kept us from going crazy (crazier!) by having to rely on HLN before we found you!! Thank you all for sharing this Juanderful site with us!

    P.S…..we have to give credit to our oldest hen for coming up with that priceless “Dalai Juana” tag. She’s the quietest one in the group and when she popped up with that we couldn’t stop laughing!! She just smiled as is her nature. She didn’t want us to post it but it was a gem so we had to share!!

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 11:07 pm

      Should I not tell tell you the tag “Dalai Juanua” has been passed on then? 🙂

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 11:41 pm

      You “hens” added such levity to this sordid affair. Don’t go too far … if she gets 1st degree we will need you back as our “Dalai Juanua” will press on to help the jury give her the DP. I wonder if she will smirk then ….

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 1:33 am

      For the record, do you “old hens” mind disclosing exactly just how old you are?? In this day and age, “old” is such a relative term. I’ve had a difficult time in my mind thinking about just how old an “old hen” is. Please answer if you are comfortable answering. 🙂

  57. Anniefreeze
    05/03/2013 at 10:50 pm

    Cici, the best things from you. Dali juana, added to many ground making comment to your credit.

  58. ringadingding
    05/03/2013 at 11:12 pm

    I hate to admit it, but I had very limited knowledge of this case—until I caught a snippet of JA being cross examined by Juan. My first thought was, oh that poor woman (don’t throw rocks–I knew nothing! nothing!). Then when she started correcting him on little stuff, really petty crap, I thought…uh oh…you’re not doing yourself any favors there. Then I pretty quickly couldn’t stand her so I changed the channel. That was it–not more than 10 or 15 minutes, until I caught a bit of Samuels and thought, again, uh oh…something wrong with that guy. I started to learn more about the case, but just from the crap on HLN. When ALV came on, I was expecting her to explain what DV really is (I grew up in an extremely abusive family so the topic is important to me), but once it was clear that she was making a mockery of true DV and setting advocacy back light years, I was furious. That’s when I started really following the trial. I realized what a hideous and depraved person JA is–to not only butcher Travis, but to have debased him during his life and in his death (at least, attempting to…won’t work). It was too much to bear alone. Everyone I know is too disgusted by the case to follow “that sick chick.”

    Thankfully, I found this site. Sane people who care. And Syn, who can explain what someone like this is about. I’ve never met anyone like this (at least, I hope not), and it scares me because I was taken in by her when I caught that snippet on the stand. I don’t know how many people like her are out there, but like this site’s tagline reads, there are monsters walking amongst us. If I cross paths with one…I hope to know it.

    I also hope that if there are any on this jury who, like me, were taken in (albeit, she got on my nerves after just a couple minutes), it will not have taken long to see the truth here. It doesn’t matter, really, the sequence of the murder. It’s the brutality and decision-making that went into it that says everything that needs to be said about a just verdict.

    Justice for Travis. Hope for us all.

    • MMD
      05/04/2013 at 9:29 am

      I’m so glad that you discovered this site as well. It has been a godsend for all of us. Donchais is without compare and Syn made it so we could truly understand how evil JA truly is.

  59. Allison
    05/03/2013 at 11:12 pm

    Still one more question: The 3 receipts for gas were from her trip to GO to Arizona – right ??? and then the Tesoro girl who testified with the bank statement was for the gas after she already killed Travis – right??? Were there no receipts found for the Tesoro gas – so they used her bank statement???

    • donchais
      05/03/2013 at 11:18 pm

      Gas purchased before entering AZ…bought gas along the way on card…gas in cans used to fill tank after murder to leave AZ, going to Utah with no paper trail.

  60. LadyinRed
    05/03/2013 at 11:31 pm

    Juan hit this one not only over the fence, but out of the ball park …. let’s all keep the faith. Prayers for the Alexander family!

  61. Irie Girl
    05/03/2013 at 11:34 pm

    One thing that keeps coming back to me is how, while on the stand and in her journals, Arias portrayed herself as this emotional, weepy person. Yet there was not a single moment in four months that see showed genuine, visceral emotion. Even the few times she was obviously feeling trapped or s

    • Irie Girl
      05/03/2013 at 11:37 pm

      Ahhhh posting from my phone 😦
      ….or sorry for herself there was no depth. It
      Was unnatural and a contradiction of many journal entries. Th jury had to have noticed.

    • HJ Madison
      05/03/2013 at 11:50 pm

      I saw that too … except in the police interviews, when the lady detective gives her toilet paper. But we could not really see her face at all. There was something going on — she had spent her first night in custody, wearing orange and handcuffs … maybe it was just complete frustration over loosing control and probably not doing too well getting her own way. Something. I think that is why JM pointed her phony tears out during his close. Just such a liar!

  62. Gigi
    05/04/2013 at 12:07 am

    donchais, thank you again….so glad i found this site. I can’t quite believe we’re at verdict stage!

    why she didn’t kill him when she first snuck in? probably a combination of the flatmates being home, and the fact that she needed him to know she was killing him! putting him down while he was asleep wouldn’t cause him any pain or punish him at all. plus, to my mind, she probably also had to work up the courage to do so, and she probably also wanted to give it one more chance to see if she could work those ‘womanly wiles’ she’s supposed to have, on Travis and get him to take her to Cancun (plan A). as you guys know, i fervently believe he rejected her sexually that day, thus putting the final nail in his coffin….and that’s when she went to plan B….

    i read her Twitter account the other day and got chills. she’s so glib, nasty and clearly enjoying her new notoriety. she really is someone who scares me even from the safety of the other side of the world behind a computer. (see Jodi, the trouble with being a black widow is that most people are scared of spiders and would rather see you squished…)

    btw, i meant to comment a while ago, there was a lot of discussion (maybe over on the HLN transcripts that i’ve lived on along with this site these past months) about how chameleonic JA was, the endless changes in her identity and appearance, and it seemed it was being seen as a negative trait. i think this ability to change one’s identity or appearance is not a pathological thing of itself, just an ability she happened to have that worked well for a borderline psychopath. but there are a great many good/normal people who have chameleonic qualities, or play with their identity, or model their identity on those of others; what of famous creative types like Madonna and Kylie, who regularly lauded for ‘reinvention’ and being chameleonic. i just don’t think it is something that is inherently negative, or some part of the reason behind her killing Travis.

    take care y’all!!!! fingers crossed in Australia!

  63. Allison
    05/04/2013 at 12:14 am

    Who is Ann Campbell????

    • donchais
      05/04/2013 at 12:21 am

      If you go to search (right side) on this site and type Jodi Arias…you will find every story I’ve ever posted. Scroll to the bottom and work your way up reading history. Will answer all or most of your questions.

      • Allison
        05/04/2013 at 12:34 am

        I searched – and read about the forged pedo letters – but still don’t get who Ann Campbell is.

      • donchais
        05/04/2013 at 12:41 am

        Search Ann Campbell

    • Marilyn N
      05/04/2013 at 12:46 am

      see my #202 below

  64. Ci Ci's Circle
    05/04/2013 at 12:39 am

    Moon :
    All due respect: God won’t Bless her UNTIL OR UNLESS she repents.

    As we believe also….that ticket to Heaven ain’t free!! She’ll have to earn it!

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 2:12 am

      ty ladies!! xo

  65. Marilyn N
    05/04/2013 at 12:45 am

    allison: read this article and it will explain Ann Campbell

  66. 05/04/2013 at 1:24 am

    Thanks.. So Ann Campbell is a friend of Donavans and they both visit JA in jail… she met Donavan when Donovan was in jail with her.. Wow!!

  67. truejustice
    05/04/2013 at 1:34 am

    Ok — curiosity bad : 1 of jodi’s tweet tonight

    Jodi Arias ‏@Jodiannarias 1h
    Hypocrisy bugs. Wish we could shine a spotlight on all of Juan’s lies,lies he’s made on record over the years in a court of law.

    Classy , real classy Jodi. Boy this girl isn’t very bright is she. She really does think she’s walkin – blek

    • 05/04/2013 at 11:19 pm

      OMG r u serious?!! I’m sorry but isn’t there some sort of trouble she should be in for bad mouthing the prosecutor in her murder trial? Is Juan allowed to bring these tweets up in court somehow to the judge? Isn’t this slander??

      My blood is boiling right now. She is so arrogant and cocky n i believe she truly truk”&&

  68. Ginger
    05/04/2013 at 1:40 am

    Thank you Donchais for your excellent site and your knowledge and passion for justice!

  69. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 1:56 am

    Well after reading Jad’s posts above, I don’t know if I will ever be the same… That just totally did my head in. It’s tearing at my heart. I wish every juror could read that, and I really hope if there is a Mormon on that jury that they know of this and will share it with the others.
    I am frightened for mankind. What is happening to society.
    How very very sad…..

    • kristin
      05/04/2013 at 2:10 am

      Jads posts scared me! I believe WOBO is demented and diabolical to do those things….

  70. 05/04/2013 at 2:05 am

    I asked a couple of things a while ago, up top in a reply I wrote to someone. I don’t think anyone was able to read it because it was a million posts back..I’m just re-asking a couple questions that have been bugging me all day. Things I’m a little nervous about, that the defense brought up. I would love any feedback you all might have to keep hope alive as Katie said above… Thank you.

    So, one thing Nurmi touched on was the receipts she had saved. He asked why would she save them and leave a paper trail if she were on a covert mission? I don’t recall Juan touching on that either. I was thinking maybe she saved them for her PLL business receipts for travel expenses. Some companies require you to hand in the receipts in order to receive your reimbursement. Did Juan talk about why she would have kept them? Thankfully she did, but as Nurmi said, why did she keep them and leave a paper trail that would have busted her?

    The next concern I had was his issue with the gas cans. Nurmi asked why she didn’t buy them with cash rather than borrow from DB? It’s true, it doesn’t make sense. It’s only $12 and no trail. Did Juan give a reason for this? Nurm also mentioned she had cash she deposited but took her credit card instead. Why didn’t she use cash where no one would of ever had a record of her anywhere? Using cash instead of a cc would show more of a cover up.

    One last question..I’m a bit confused about the hair color thing. The story was that she had blonde hair when she left for her trip on June 2nd. She dyed her hair dark brown on the 3rd. Now, when Wormi showed the court pictures of her with dark brown hair, they were dated May 10th,18th etc…so was she a brunette, then at the end of May bleached it blonde, then back to brown again June 3rd? I didn’t get that whole ordeal and couldn’t re-watch it.

    Thanks! Xo

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 2:21 am

      hi bailey,

      i hope i get this right! Juan did bring up the receipts showing that she INTENTIONALLY saved them to try to ‘proove’ she was NOT in AZ.

      she did borrow 2 cans from Daryl (actually i believe she traded the stolen dvd player from g&g’s house for the 2 cans). these only held 10 gal and in her infinate wisdom, she bought a 3rd can to ensure she had at least 15 extra gals of gas so she wouldn’t have to stop anywhere in AZ for gas.

      her hair had been bleach blonde when she dated TA. At some point after moving back to Yreka, she changed it to a dirty blondish color, (she moved back to Yreka in April) On jun 3 she snapped a photo of herself in the rental car and lo and behold it was died back to her natural color. she did not look brunette to me in those photos the wurm showed, again to me it was lighter brown with blondish/copper hilites.

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 2:23 am

      p.s. even the guy at the rental car place said that on Jun 2, he viewed her more of a blonde than a brunette.

    • 05/04/2013 at 5:48 am

      Bailey… the gas can receipts…. I don’t think she EVER even thought of anyone putting that together. She was only thinking about the phone and fuel stops leaving electronic trails. She wanted as many receipts as possible showing she WASN’T near Travis. What harm would a salinas walmart receipt be? Juan IS genius.. he figured it out… Jodi is not that smart at all. Her IQ scored proves it.. yes she is a little higher than the absolutely average.. but not even in the range above average. That starts at 115 and according to Perky Jodistein is 112. Be serious would she really have expected that seemingly innocent receipt to link her to pre-med? She wasn’t even thinking she’d be caught at that stage she was thinking they would ever be able to prove she was even there. I BET it never entered her head that receipt would end up incriminating her.

      She’s average intelligence not Einstein.. who would think buying the can would be used in the way Juan is using it. The receipts were for one reason only

      “Here are all my receipts from the trip.. see I was nowhere near Travis'” You know she was thinking this because she pulled them out to show her mother… unfortunately the jury doesn’t know it… but come on logic tells you she didn’t deny it on the stand for nothing!!! To the jury??

      Think of the ninja story.. she ain’t good at abstract reasoning beyond the obvious and that link is far far far down the chain of abstract reasoning to get to.. “she cant even think.. oh if I say I ran out and left him dying everyone will wonder why I didn’t get him help”

      The defense is trying to over complicate matters it’s important to stick to basic thinking and not get caught up in the fog!!!

      Hair colour… she was blonde to those in Mesa… she was disguising herself or trying to, to Travis’ naighbours who didn’t know her that well anyway but would definitely have been more likely to notice her if she was in anyway blonde because that is how they knew her. She made her hair as dark brown as possible. For that reason.

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 8:52 am

        I also have a theory about why average-intelligence Jodi was fine with having a Wal-Mart receipt showing the purchase of ONE gas can. Because one gas can isn’t enough to get you in and out of AZ. I think Jodi thought they’d never talk to Darryl Brewer and find out about the other 2.
        Juan was brilliant when he simply said, “she documented every moment of this trip…except the part where she went to AZ.” I loved it because in one sentence JM blew apart hours of the Defense’s lame “covert mission” argument.

      • 05/04/2013 at 9:13 am

        zegactly she kept it because she never thought it could or would be used against her. Her idea was.. keep everything and prove I wasn’t there”

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 9:01 am

      Bailey, It was the first thing Juan addressed in rebuttal. He said, “Yah, she documented ALL aspects of her trip. She made sure of it. Everything is documented EXCEPT any part where she is near the state if AZ. In fact, her cell phone even gets turned off as she starts heading for AZ….” It was perfect. Perfect. It doesn’t matter if someone uses cash (which she did at WalMart), every establishment also has video surveillance. So Jodi could not stop in AZ with cash or credit.

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 9:54 am

      Bailey, the question about why JA would borrow cans instead of purchasing them with cash is, I think, a really good question. It concerned me too, until I tried to put myself in JA’s way of thinking. I could very well be she wanted to involve Daryl Brewer in her crime–even if he was oblivious at the time to the true extent of her plans. This gave her something over him in case things went wrong. She wrapped him up in it as a back up. She could tell him she would implicate him if he didn’t back her up in all ways. Plus, he had to have known she was trying to fly under the radar. Anyone would question why, after all the times she’d driven back and forth to AZ, she needed gas cans on this particular trip.

  71. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 2:28 am

    oh and also… even if she had paid cash in AZ for gas, she would have taken the risk of being seen on survaliance (sp) cams.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 8:46 am

      I thought the same thing about the cameras. The jurors are smart. Out of 12, at least some of them will think the same thing. I’m so glad we’ve had insight into the jurors’ thinking throughout the trial. It gives me confidence in who they are. Unlike Casey Anthony jury, where we had no clue til the verdict that they were a bunch of complete idiots!!

  72. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 2:33 am

    well with that last entry and seeing how awful my spelling was eeks i think i will hit the hay.

    I had so hoped that Juan would have explained the way CC’s circle did on the gun. If she brought the gun then its Premed1 if she used TAs gun then it’s felony murder1.

    rest well ev1 and I hope and pray that each of the jurors are praying and doing some soul searching so that they come up with the Justifiable verdict of Premeditation Murder1.

  73. Robert in Rotterdam
    05/04/2013 at 7:53 am

    from today’s NY Times:

    “….Gloria Mark of the University of California, Irvine, found that a typical office worker gets only 11 minutes between each interruption, while it takes an average of 25 minutes to return to the original task after an interruption……

    “…To simulate the pull of an expected cellphone call or e-mail, we had subjects sit in a lab and perform a standard cognitive skill test. In the experiment, 136 subjects were asked to read a short passage and answer questions about it. There were three groups of subjects; one merely completed the test. The other two were told they “might be contacted for further instructions” at any moment via instant message…

    “….the distraction of an interruption, combined with the brain drain of preparing for that interruption, made our test takers 20 percent dumber. That’s enough to turn a B-minus student (80 percent) into a failure (62 percent).”

    Morale? While waiting for the verdict we might become a bit stupider. Thats ok as far as I’m concerned. Of course, if the wait is too long we might all be institionalized, so let’s hope the jury’s all have their thikingcaps on _with NO interruptions!

  74. Robert in Rotterdam
    05/04/2013 at 8:04 am

    I also want to join the chorus of thank you’s to our host- with- the- most-donchais. For the space, her wit and her welcoming all to the cause. It’s a lot of work and takes dedication, and it was most worthy and most admirable.

    Appreciation to all sandbox members who were gracious and informative and funny as the needs arose. As one who had never gone near a “blog” site–as one who doesn’t even like the word “blog”–I found this site while jumping around the internet for story or info on the case. What I found was an embrace of divergent thoughts and interest and temperaments. There was an atmosphere that one needn’t fear dumbing down to get a point across.There was enormous creativity constantly percolating within and around the comments on the case. It has been a pleasure to play with you all. I embrace, in thought, my fellow sandboxers.

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 2:19 am

      Well stated Rob. I couldn’t say it better, so if ya don’t mind, I’ll just piggyback on your message.

      A first-time “blogger” from Nebraska has learned lots from this very special place.

  75. Crystal Harris
    05/04/2013 at 8:33 am

    Thank you for the re-cap, as well as this entire website, Donchais. I had to laugh when you wrote the part about a nap, because I literally fell asleep today during Nurmi’s close. His droning was too much and sent me off to sleep. I’m so excited for a verdict. I really don’t think we’re going to be disappointed. Murder1!!!!!

  76. Crystal Harris
    05/04/2013 at 8:40 am

    For any who are interested, my episode of “Who the Bleep Did I Marry?” is re-running on the DiscoveryID Channel several times today. The title of my episode is “Forgive and Forget”. Despite the cheesy title of the show, they did a very good job I think. I think the first airing is at 12noon Pacific today. I taped this show last June and it originally aired sometime last summer.
    Dateline update: still expecting an air date of May 15.

    • Marilyn N
      05/04/2013 at 12:07 pm

      Looking forward to your Dateline, Crystal!!

    • 05/04/2013 at 12:09 pm

      Wow!!! Congrats Crystal!!! I have that set to record, (I have Directv and it has a few showings on channel 285 today and tomorrow) I’ll also keep a lookout for the Dateline show!!! Thanks for the heads up!

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 1:12 pm

      Thank you Crystal. I am glad I caught this. ATT Uverse (1260 or 260 in Midwest) 7pm Central. Thank you for sharing.

  77. 05/04/2013 at 8:55 am

    Regarding jad’s post above

    Anyone interested in seeing the doodles referred to in Part I, here is a link to page I posted about it. Has the Doodle itself and my brief interpretations.


  78. MMD
    05/04/2013 at 9:44 am

    Morning all *****waves******* well I missed yesterday’s def closing (let’s just say sick) however I did wake up and watch JM’s rebuttal. As always he brought it home and I hope that the jury comes back with a quick verdict. Oh I also watched Dr. Drew so I saw bits and pieces of Wurmi’s closing but I knew that I could depend, as always on donchais to give me all the important points without watching. Wurmi would have just made me sicker. I couldn’t believe that no one on Dr. Drew didn’t slip up and call him Wurmi because that is truly his name, seemed kind of odd to me 😯

    • 05/04/2013 at 10:21 am

      OMG – MMD!! ok I’m not really here… but yeah I am how could I not be am rewatching Juan’s finale. 😛

      I was worried because you missed yesterday of all days! Anyhow I came to the [light-hearted] conclusion that you were flying down to hang out with Juan for his much needed R&R!

      Glad to see you popped in so we know you are ok! 😀

      • MMD
        05/04/2013 at 10:34 am

        Well to answer both you and WTJ, I cannot tell a lie!!! I was in the courtroom sitting beside Wild in his scooter because of his broken ankle and JM’s brother 😆 Thankfully Dennis, the wonderful cameraman didn’t pan over that far because then there the the chance that members of the jury could be seen! 😀

        I also have tons of oil in my back yard :-P:

    • 05/04/2013 at 10:25 am

      Hi MMD…hope you’re feeling better. We really missed you yesterday. How amazing was our man in Arizona? But I guess you know how amazing he is!

      • MMD
        05/04/2013 at 10:34 am

        thank you – see above and below 🙂

    • Lisa M
      05/04/2013 at 10:41 am

      You missed Nurmi’s closing? Count yourself lucky! You were wise to stay away because your sickness would have intensified to the point of required hospitalization!

  79. MMD
    05/04/2013 at 10:28 am

    Donchais I want to take the time to thank you for this wonderful site and your awesome reporting. This as truly been a godsend for so many of us. You have worked tirelessly for justice for Travis as well as providing us with a safe and secure sandbox for us to play in.

    As a newbie to a blog I had no idea that the School of Donchais could be as fun and how much I would learn. I didn’t miss many days, but when I did, you were always here to let me know exactly what happened. You have provided a truly global group with so much passion for a common cause a safe place and we so appreciate it.

    We are a only as good as the sum of our parts so everyone played such an important role. I have to point out a couple of people who really enhanced this experience. First of all Syn – I have learned so much about this loon (no offense to the bird) from you and it is truly scary. You also helped me understand so much of this trial that I would never have been able to understand without your clarity and translations. I also realized how lucky I was to get out of my marriage when I did. Thank you 😀

    CiCi’s Circle – you ladies are truly the heart and soul of this blog. You don’t hold back and have such a way with words. I truly looked forward to your comments although we were rarely on at the same time. Thank you 😀

    All our legal eagles, like WIS,FOL,HJ Madison,NancyB, Moon, Jim, and all the rest who I haven’t mentioned (remember I’m still sick) thank you for all your explanations to our questions no matter how many times they were re-asked or just plain dumb. Thank you 😀

    Observer and other LDS members, present and past, I have learned a wealth of information about your faith and you helped to explain so many things. Considering that I have family connections to this faith, I’m appalled at how lacking my knowledge was! Thank you 😀

    To all the people who have shared their traumas and and life experiences with the rest of us, thank you for trusting us. I hope we were able to help and provide some support to you and that none of you feel that any of us abused your trust. 😀

    Robert and Syn – you two are truly scary. it’s like the male/female version of the same person but always a joy you watch you two spar. Thank you 😀

    As for the rest of our motley crew, every single one of you are appreciated in your own way even if I haven’t named you. We have grown from a smallish group at the start to such a large group that I finally had to stop giving the traditional welcome message because I simply couldn’t keep up with everyone and remember who I had or hadn’t given it to. I know I could have been more organized but sorry, I had a trial to watch and look after JM 😀 As I have said to Janet or more than one occasion, priorities, priorities 😉

    Tracey and Anna – I NEED to know what is going on and if you don’t want to share, just to know that you are OK!!!! We’re a family here and we worry!!! ❗

    Chrissie are you ever coming back? You are a genius with your photos. Both JM and I thank you 😀

    Laine you’re an awesome mother and I hope you have a safe and productive trip – plus have good internet access. 😀

    Now I know I have left out a ton of people but this is a work in progress 😀

    Once again I have to thank our awesome host donchais, as well as her sidekicks ritanita and “Lady in Court” (katiecoolady). You have put up with frayed nerves, trolls, and all of us. Without you, we wouldn’t have come together to seek Justice for Travis and the entire Alexander family!!! Thank you 😀 {{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} darlin’

    Let’s hope that we have a short verdict wait!!! 🙂

    ok I have run out of steam and not going to proof it. all mistakes are mine and I’ll blame it on not being up to par 😳

    • 05/04/2013 at 10:50 am

      MMD – great wrap up.. **applause**

      I think you give me too much credit but I am honoured and humbled that you think I helped you see how strong you were to extricate yourself from that terrible situation.

      Through no fault of your own someone took advantage of your good nature. The emotional and psychological scarring such an event brings is not an easy one to overcome.

      Each and every one of us who has managed to get out should be very proud of ourselves. I don’t call it surviving.. I call it escaping. Escaping the clutches of a predator.

      • Family of Law
        05/04/2013 at 12:43 pm

        Syn, you deserve every word of praise. In all sincerity, the INSIGHTS you have provided us all are valuable beyond words. I can’t begin to know what your personal experience with your ex was like, it’s unimaginable to me. But you didn’t let it destroy you, instead you set out on a quest for knowledge and further education. I applaud your desire to share what you’ve learned, it will save and heal countless others.

      • 05/04/2013 at 12:49 pm

        awwww wow!! thanks FOL!! wow I’m speechless.. imagine that!!

      • MMD
        05/04/2013 at 3:50 pm

        See Syn – that is why you were number 1 right after our awesome host donchais!!!! I’m pretty sure that I speak for close to everyone on how vitally important your input and insights were 😀 Now just don’t go and get a swelled head or anything cause then I’ll have to assume the stance 😆

      • C.I.
        05/04/2013 at 11:58 pm

        I totally agree – thanks Syn

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 11:36 am

      MMD: So glad you “stopped in”. You were missed yesterday! And I hope you are feeling better. I worried your absence had something to do with lawn rolling. 😉🐮

      And let us not forget YOUR contribution to this… your sassy wit and helpful/hilarious tweet patrol. Thank you. As you said, this has been a truly global collaboration and exchange with one uniting theme: Justice for Travis. And of course, it could not have happened without Donchaise. Many, many thanks.

    • Family of Law
      05/04/2013 at 12:17 pm

      Oh my, MMD!!!! What a heartfelt post!!!! You my dear, MUST be noted as well- YOU were the 1st to greet me, some months back- I was (am) new to the blog world, and you made me feel instantly at home, thank you!

      And I say “hear, hear” to all the peeps you mentioned, and praise all of the people who’ve taken the time to share their specialized knowledge! I too have learned so much!

      MMD, you left a gaping hole here yesterday… And you were missed! So rest up this weekend (and make sure you release Juan in time) – we’ll be expecting you here Monday, because I’m guessing we may be expecting a verdict by the end of the day (((((hope)))))!

      I’m sending you a couple pints of Haagen Dazs, special delivery 🙂

  80. 05/04/2013 at 10:34 am

    Lisa M :

    As far as your third reason, don’t you think it’s possible she did have the gun on her or directly behind her, so she could kill him if things got out of hand?

    LisaM hello to you by the way!!!

    yeah it’s possible she had the gun.. absolutely.. it was small enough to be in a pocket or anything…. but I have to go by my knowledge of how she operates, what motivated her

    My interpretations throughout are what SHE would have done. How SHE would operate. Were this a different perpetrator with a different way of thinking my interpretations of the same scene could well be very different because I would be basing my interpretations on the psychopathology and methodology of that other perpetrator.

    This is not what I would do, you would do or anyone else would do… to me this is about what SHE would do. It’s imperative to think as she does to work out what and why she did what she did. That’s my job!! 😀 To get inside her head.

    I believe there is much truth in what she says but in a twisted way.

    I think the ‘ninja’ going to her purse was born of her going to her purse to grab the gun. It just fits to me in the way you find clues in everything she says and it makes sense to me on a lot of levels.

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 10:50 am

      > It’s imperative to think as she does to work out what and why she did what she did.<

      That's exactly what I've been trying to do (but without much luck). It's the only way to find answers. I woke up in the middle of the night, seeing her with the gun pointed at Travis while he was in the shower. Could the reason she had the gun to begin with (also as a back up)…was to force/intimidate him into those poses? I just can't see him crouching down like that without a threat. In no one's universe is that a sexy pose.

      • 05/04/2013 at 11:00 am

        I think she sweet talked him into those poses.. I think she hounded and hounded him and he finally gave in which is why he looks uncomfortable.. he doesn’t want to do them but to shut her up whinging he did them.

        He didn’t get into that shower because she wanted him to take the poses.. he got into that shower thinking she was elsewhere.. she then came in with the camera and talked him into the poses. I just know it. It makes the most sense on every level.

        If she had a gun pointed at her he would take his chance when he could and disarm her. He was very fit, he’d been working out he would have been more afraid of her with the gun and more confident in his ability to disarm her than in her not shooting him.

        No way would he have turned his back on her and out his eyes to that wall if she was holding a gun on him. He would EXPECT her to shoot him in the back.

        That pic Nurmi showed in court.. can you seriously imagine he would stand like that if she had a gun on him? Nah.. no way in the world!

        Don’t fall into Nurmi’s attempt to cause that fog to roll in!

      • 05/04/2013 at 11:04 am

        correction: If she had a gun pointed at her

        if she had a gun pointed at HIM

      • 05/05/2013 at 2:22 am

        Syn- I think that you theory of her pestering him to take his picture is dead on. Her other bf said one time she kept bugging him to take pics of him in the shower too when they were dating but he didn’t want her to. She also told of another time (in her interrogation) she wanted to take pics of Travis in the shower and shaving and he told her no but she kept hounding him. This would have been her perfect opportunity to have him in a vulnerable position to do her thing.

        Ring- Lol there is no way the picture of him sitting,a sexy pose! His face isn’t even in the pic. It looks like an accidental shot. I also think she may have used it to order him around to do what she says so she could move in for the kill. Like someone said, I don’t think she would risk the sound of a gun shot if at all possible.

        I can’t stop thinking of that sweet little pug Napoleon 😦 Can you imagine the horror he had to see his daddy go through. Then be home, gated in downstairs while daddy was rotting upstairs and no voice to tell anyone. I’m so glad Deanna took him however, I read he is older now and blind, deaf and very sick. Not to be morbid but can you imagine he passes away on the day the verdict is read? A sign from god…and a reunion of best friends. Sorry…I’m weird I know. Imagine how Jodi felt when she heard Napoleon was with Deanna now …when that was mentioned I bet she boiled inside. Hah hah Jodi!

    • Lisa M
      05/04/2013 at 10:56 am

      Hello to you, too, Syn! I was away for about five days until yesterday or the day before because I couldn’t concentrate on anything else and unfortunately I had work to do and I literally couldn’t get anything done. Luckily, my break coincided with the trial hiatus. I’m back now just in time for the verdict.
      Anyway, yes, I agree, the ninja going to her purse was most likely born of her going to her purse. There’s always a bit of truths in lies, because the smart liar knows that they’re more believable that way. And she may not be smart enough to pull of a crime like this, but she’s an experienced liar. The gun was purely backup in my opinion, for so many reasons. If she hadn’t panicked she never would have used the gun at the end IMO

      • 05/04/2013 at 11:32 am

        yeah I agree.. to me she used the gun for two reasons.. unfortunately I can’t rule out either one. I like to only have one logical conclusion but sometimes there just isn’t enough evidence to go on.

        1. He convulsed and she panicked. (That was my original but to be honest the more I think about it the less likely I’m finding it.)

        2. She surveyed the scene before she actually got him into the shower.. she could have been taking a ‘breather’ after dragging him back from the bedroom. Her adrenaline abating.

        His body lay on the bathroom floor while she thinks what to about the mess.

        She’s thinking…. “Oh god look at this mess what will I do? Oh I know!! I’ll get the gun and shoot him so it looks like there is two people” I’m willing to bet there’s a movie she has seen that has that idea in it.

        She takes off her socks washes off her feet careful not to leave bloody footprints… goes to get the gun

        Perhaps the gun was on her.. but I just think ninja story = gun in handbag. Her handbag may have been downstairs not necessarily in his bedroom. If she slept downstairs on the couch logically it was downstairs. Maybe this is when she came back up with shoes on.. ie the shoe print and why she ended up ditching her shoes as well. Remember at one point later Juan questioned her about where were her shoes because she says she remembers coming out of the fog with only socks on [something like that].

        Anyhow… she then shoots him and gets him into the shower. Cleans off the bottom of her shoes and takes whatever else is needed downstairs with her.

        Does the business with the camera and leaves through that door near the washing machine and out through the garage.

  81. Lisa M
    05/04/2013 at 10:39 am

    Gwen :
    Donchais, do you happen to know Juan’s trial record. I’ve heard very good….how good?

    Don’t know if anyone else answered this, but I’ve heard he’s never lost a case? Is that true??

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 12:01 pm

      I don’t specifically know Juan’s record, or the Maricopa county DA’s record. I do know the record of the San Diego County DA is around 94%. That does include pleas. I’m sure it’s something similar like that in Maricopa.

  82. Lisa M
    05/04/2013 at 11:04 am

    MMD :
    Well to answer both you and WTJ, I cannot tell a lie!!! I was in the courtroom sitting beside Wild in his scooter because of his broken ankle and JM’s brother Thankfully Dennis, the wonderful cameraman didn’t pan over that far because then there the the chance that members of the jury could be seen!
    I also have tons of oil in my back yard :

    Ah, MMD, you trickster! And I’m sorry about the oil in your backyard!!

    • MMD
      05/04/2013 at 11:51 am


  83. ringadingding
    05/04/2013 at 11:06 am

    Syntara :
    Don’t fall into Nurmi’s attempt to cause that fog to roll in!

    Hahaha–okay, waking up! I forgot he had his eyes closed at one point. She must have really put on a full court press to get him to crouch down. I was almost going to ask if she’d drugged him, but that would have shown up in toxicology. Just having a hard time understanding. I want to scream at him not to crouch down.

    • 05/04/2013 at 11:35 am

      hahahaha Ive said that earlier…. ie.. we see fear in his eyes in that photo maybe not because it’s there but because we want it to be.. we want to scream at him.. “get up she is going to kill you!!!!”

      • ringadingding
        05/04/2013 at 12:01 pm

        I know…it’s hard to see that face and not read into it based on what came after.

  84. Lisa M
    05/04/2013 at 11:12 am

    The way you put it, Ring, that you want to scream at him not to crouch down, is really heartbreaking. OMG, what that poor guy must have gone through.

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 11:24 am

      What she did was so horrific. I pray the verdict comes in quickly.

  85. SeniorMoments
    05/04/2013 at 11:32 am

    Hi to all of you! Here is a question that has been unanswered for me. Did Jodi ever actually do any sales or recruitment for Prepaid Legal or did she just attend the meetings and conventions and hang out with the PPL folks? Ddi she ever get any income from PPL? Was she still considered an employee/member of PPL when she was arrested? I know when she went back to Yreka she got a job as a waitress. How did she support herself when she lived in Mesa after she and Travis “broke up”?

    I apologize if these questions have been addressed. I’ve not heard them addressed on HLN or elsewhere.

    • 05/04/2013 at 11:47 am

      far as I know she was earning $40 per month which Searcy said was pretty much the minimum. I’d need to recheck his testimony on it.. but it left me with the impression $40 was baseline.

      She definitely wasn’t making the money she imagined initially – when she started spending like crazy and stopped paying her bills at the end of her relationship with Darryl. Which ended up being why the house was foreclosed. She lacks commitment she thought it was going to be an easy money making scheme. She thought she had found the proverbial pot at the end of the rainbow. That’s how much of a jenius she is! Fell for the direct marketing ploy hook line and sinker. Then decided hmm can’t do this I’ll just hook someone who is good at it instead. Anyhow back to Brewer’s initial involvement….

      Why he still defends her is beyond me… she must really have done a number on him he’s still in denial about her after everything she has done. That guy has some real issues going on.

      She was definitely still involved in PPL at the time of the murder, that’s the Gus Searcy entanglement.. he was trying to ‘help’ her.

      By rights they should be paying her legal fees. I have a feeling there’s legal reasons in this change of name to wrangle out of that caper. I’d love someone to investigate that angle and see if they could be sued to get some $ back for the taxpayers.. think some time ago when this was a topic of discussion, jad was privy to talk of some kind of maneuverings in this direction.

      • Marilyn N
        05/04/2013 at 11:59 am

        Also, on one of the interrogations she told Flores how she never made any money at it because she wasn’t good at approaching people to make the sales.

      • 05/04/2013 at 12:01 pm

        yep true dat!

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 12:38 pm

        PPL’s policies do not cover extensive legal issues. I heard somewhere that Jodi didn’t actually own a policy. It’s the type of insurance that if you really really need it, that’s when the policy starts to have exclusions. I mean, PPL is into light simple estate planning, some civil issues, etc. Anyone who has had protracted legal issues knows how quickly the legal fees rack up. My divorce had legal fees well over $200k, not including the present custody appeal, which is also in the $100’s of thousands. Trust me, there is no PPL policy that even remotely covers any criminal legal fees for murder.
        As for the name change…it’s possible they changed their name due to bad publicity. But even if they did, it never would have freed them from their existing legal business obligations and policy obligations under PPL name.

      • 05/04/2013 at 12:43 pm

        kk thankyou 🙂

      • SeniorMoments
        05/04/2013 at 12:57 pm

        Thank you (and others) for your help. I didn’t start following until Jodi’s testimony, so I missed Searcy. I’ll go back and watch/read it!

      • Janna
        05/05/2013 at 2:44 am

        The Darryl Brewer connection leaves me with more questions than answers. Under oath on the witness stand he used the phrase “love” several times in reference to Fraudy Fogstein. I still believe she has naked pictures of DB that could be used against him and I believe she’s threatened him with lies similar to the one she fabricated about Travis and pedophilia. It’s obvious DB is devoted to his son and I’m sure he doesn’t want to provoke Fogstein and put his reputation at risk.

  86. Lisa M
    05/04/2013 at 11:37 am

    I know I’m often critical of Juan (I do it because I love!) so here goes a critique of Nurmi instead:
    WHAT was he thinking when he opened with “You don’t have to like Jodi; I don’t like her nine times out of ten”? (Cue hideous smile by Jodi)
    Nurmi, you idiot! You provided no context for why you don’t like Jodi and assumed the jury doesn’t like her as well. Yet, what has she done to garner their dislike? Maybe she didn’t come across as very likable while on the stand, but that’s debatable. Who knows what a defense-minded person might think?
    Secondly, sure, we here on this blog and elsewhere across the world might dislike Jodi (intensely) but how do you know that the jury also finds her repulsive? We may despise her arrogance as she sits there and draws, looking up with a blank or contemptuous look at the prosecutor or witnesses, but how do you know the jury members are noticing that? From what I’ve heard they’re very focused on the attorneys and witnesses.
    So I believe this weak attempt of his to bring levity into the courtroom (was that what he was trying to do?) and to take the focus off of what she did and focus on who she is instead was a major fail IMO. He might have left the jury wondering, Why does Nurmi dislike Jodi so much? (‘Course they may be much smarter than that, and know exactly why he doesn’t like her)

    • Lisa M
      05/04/2013 at 11:40 am

      And furthermore, Nurmi, I’m sure they don’t like you very much either! Maybe you should have said, “You don’t have to like the defense team. Nine days out of ten I don’t like us either.”

      • 05/04/2013 at 11:54 am

        Lisa… did you read jad’s post above.. it offers an interesting take on why this little charade may have been played out.

        by the way I actually think for once Nurmi told the truth.. I think at least 9/10 times he doesn’t like her.. but I think he loves the opportunity she has brought him.. which is probably what drops it to 9/10.

        But lots of attorneys don’t like their clients doesn’t mean they aren’t doing the job for them. So if that was to pull the legal maneuver jad refers to.. in my opinion it ain’t gonna work anyhow or shouldn’t.

      • Marilyn N
        05/04/2013 at 11:55 am

        The way she chuckled, it has been said by others it was a planned, inside joke between the two, but not appropriate if you ask me.

  87. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 11:48 am

    good morning!!

    I know I’ve asked and received the location of the ho’s tweets, I thought I had bookmarked it for future ref, but I can’t find it! Does anyone have that link again for me? thanks and sorry to pester ne1 about this again. I heard that she had some tweets last nite and I want to read them. If i understood twitter better , or signed up for twitter I could get to it but i don’t want to!

    • Marilyn N
      05/04/2013 at 11:53 am

      Here’s her tweets:

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 11:57 am

        ahhh ty so so much, marilyn! you have helped me out time and time again on this and I am so grateful!! 🙂

    • 05/04/2013 at 12:00 pm

      Morning Moon.. I naively thought I was done for the weekend.. but how naive I was. should have realised wasn’t going to escape that easy! **waves**

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 12:26 pm

        yeah when I read your post saying see you on Monday I was like… oh you must be going away for a few days! 😛

  88. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 11:52 am

    for syn: I know you have talked of the ritual that JAD talks of above, I was planning on reading more about it at that time, but with evthing going on I didn’t get back to it. So when JAD posted it captivated me and stunned me and I am still not over the shock of it all. My mind just can’t go there…

    • 05/04/2013 at 11:57 am

      it was jad who initially recommended I read the posts about it.. it kind of coincided with me joining the blog. were it not for jad I would have missed all that! jad gave me a whole list of comment #’s and dates to take a look at pretty much all pertaining to that subject.

  89. Marilyn N
    05/04/2013 at 12:01 pm

    THe verdict is coming on Monday (because I’m flying out on Tuesday).
    But, am going to Arizona (Tucson) so there’ll be no lack of coverage.
    However, I need to see it live!!!!! So MONDAY IT WILL BE!!!!!!

  90. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 12:01 pm

    Oh, again I can’t weed through evthing I’ve tried to save… I can’t locate the “pics” of the jurors…anyone have that handy? any thoughts on who will be foreperson?

    • Marilyn N
      05/04/2013 at 12:02 pm

      Do we have pics of the jurors?
      Or do you mean their nicknames?

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 12:08 pm

        I meant the nicknames.. but at least will give me a better understanding of those let go by lotto and to try to figure out who foreman will be. Also, did anyone other than me catch that jury #8 teared up at the close yesterday? I think he wishes he could still be a part of it! too bad he didn’t call a cab after drinking himself into a supor.

      • Marilyn N
        05/04/2013 at 12:13 pm

        Yes Moon – I’m certain he is kicking himself Bigtime!!!

  91. 05/04/2013 at 12:03 pm

    I can post it on my site and send you the link if you like… cos I don’t know any other way to show you!

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 12:04 pm

      ok ty vm!!!

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 12:27 pm

      ty ty so who do you think foreperson will be??

      • 05/04/2013 at 12:32 pm

        well the two I had earmarked are gone.. funny about that!!! Now I’m thinking

        hmm Artist? Church lady?

        remember Barbie, Elderly Man, Pony Tail are the alternates

        CEO and Tri-colour are ousted as is Poquito

        No idea who the stronger personalities are that are lft the two I had a feel for are gone. Rather annoying 😀

        Artist??? Paul??? CPA??? whats your take?

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 12:40 pm

        I don’t have a clue….

      • MMD
        05/04/2013 at 3:55 pm

        I think it will be CPA. Lord help us if it is Donald Trump guy 😦

  92. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 12:03 pm

    Chris and Sky Hughes will be back on Dr. Drew Monday.

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 12:08 pm

      Thanks for the heads up, Moon!

      • Janeto
        05/04/2013 at 12:28 pm

        Yeah, I saw that too, and can’t wait for Monday to see what else they say!!! Moon beat me to letting you all know. 🙂 Thanks moon!!

    • 05/04/2013 at 12:28 pm

      Who’s show will they be on?

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 12:34 pm

        Dr. Drew HLN 9pm EST

      • 05/04/2013 at 12:36 pm

        Thank you Moon 🙂

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 12:42 pm

        mp! 😉

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 2:51 am

      Do you think Chris & Sky can take any type of legal action against LaViolette for misrepresenting the Email communication stuff in court???

  93. Marilyn N
    05/04/2013 at 12:12 pm

    I think Juan should have shown a visual map of the ridiculous amount of driving
    JA did on her “road” trip. But maybe the Arizona jurors are way more familiar
    with the highways down that way.

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 12:23 pm

      I think so too! and IF this was supposed to be a trip to Utah, why did she drive all the way down to southern CA? 2800+ miles on that car.

      I mean i know she had her BS stories but the route to Ut… well you all know by now!

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 12:46 pm

      Ya know, we here in SoCal love to drive. And the “Zonies”, as we call them, are all the people from AZ who drive here especially in the summer when it’s killer hot. I think people in AZ really know about the drive from AZ to CA. We’ve all done it. So many people have moved to AZ from CA, that we all have family and friends we’re driving to visit, etc. The jurors will have this experience.

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 12:53 pm

        ok… but she is way up in NO CA… would have been a quicker route to Ryan Burns….. instead she drives alllllll the way to SO CA. I just can’t stand that evil ho

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 1:37 pm

        Ooh, I know Moon! The jurors will see that. They will.

      • 05/05/2013 at 4:25 am

        ….But didn’t you guys know, she had to visit all her friends first and go to Darryl’s for the gas cans. Silly girls, how could you forget? 😉

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 2:54 am

      I agree Marilyn.
      Line #1 on a map – Yreka, California to Utah where Ryan Burns lives.
      Line #2 on a map – Yreka to other towns in California to Mesa, Arizona to Utah.
      BIG difference!!

  94. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 12:13 pm

    WEll last nite on HLN they were all guessing as to when verdict will be reached. I thought most of them guessed Tues. a few of them guessed Wed and one or 2 guessed next Friday.

    I am hoping for Monday afternoon …. and that it can be nothing else but first degree!

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 1:08 pm

      I’m hoping for Monday, too.

  95. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 12:16 pm

    In this pic she totally looks like …

    well i can’t say but my gosh I think this is one of the ugliest pics I’ve seen of her (face) yet!


    • 05/04/2013 at 2:09 pm

      Yeah I think smile occurred when nurmi said he didn’t like her 9 days out of 10. She used to have caps/crowns on her teeth and now they r gone…done know why but if you look at photos in which she is smiling, her teeth look vastly different.

      • 05/05/2013 at 4:06 am

        Ohhhhh…..that’s what the difference is! I was like why does her teeth look so creepy and fangy. Caps would explain it! I’m sure prison doesn’t have cosmetic dental coverage. That picture of her is the ugliest yet. Her eyes are wacked…teeth -you already know…something about her just isn’t right.

      • 05/05/2013 at 10:15 am

        Yep…i put a pre-jail photo next to a current photo and that’s exactly what is missing! Lol aww poor jodi.. she must cringe now when she looks in the mirror and doesn’t have her caps, bleach blonde hair and provocative clothing on. Her “fake” look is gone..time for reality Jodes. Welcome to the real world.

  96. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 12:21 pm

    Good morning my family!!!!!! Been tooo busy at my other “prorities” but did watch both closings….MMD and all others who thank donchais, I Offer the same. I don’t even see this as a “blog”. I never blogged before, and probably won’t because I have found the best site on here!! You donchais and all my other sandboxers are the best and no need to go anywhere else! Like others have said, everyone has had awesome input! Yes, some more than others, but I include everyone because donchais has provided a wonderful site with the best people all around the globe! I have so enjoyed all the “breakdowns in laymans terms” that Robert and Syn has done to let us all be able to understand things much more where as we would have so many more unanswered questions. I enjoy all the humor that everyone submitted, because without that, we would all be in Syn’s chair or on her couch! 😆 I have come to feel so close to you all, and I want you to know it’s meant the world to me to have so many (more than what was here than when I started) people from all different walks of life, come together, and connect with each other on so many levels…I truly love you each and every one, and will always remember the fun and ALL other emotions, compassion, and the truly gifted legal eagles on this site! You all have made it what it is! Donchais, I thank you for everything you have done, will continue to do, and know that we all respect you in the highest regards! (as I bow my head to you) I also bow to my other mates in the sandbox. You all are the best!!!!! Those of you who continue to struggle with everyday life, whether it be from the past, or present, you always have us to lean on! I know Chrystal, (sp) continues to fight her battle, and I’ve not been able to get to you and say anything yet, but congrats on all you have been through and know the battles you are still having, we are with you in spirit! I’m sorry but I don’t recall who adopted the “sweet boy” horse, but I have my hat off to you as well. Please give him a rub on the nose from me way fromTexas as well! Tracey and Anna, Please let us know you are ok, and pop in once in a while when you can. You guys are awesome and funny too! I know I have missed many others, forgive me as this site as MMD said, has grown so much since I started on here, it’s too hard to remember everybody, just know you are all included in my highest regards. NOW we wait for JUSTICE FOR TRAVIS, and hope and pray that the jurors see what SHOULD be done with this pathetic, lousy excuse of a person!!!!!!!!! Ta ta for now. Just wanted you all to know I’m still lurking and still around! 😀 “muah”

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 12:53 pm

      Very nicely said, Janeto! Thanks for your thoughts.

    • 05/04/2013 at 12:56 pm

      Oh Janeto, what a heartfelt post from a lovely soul.

    • MMD
      05/04/2013 at 4:01 pm

      Awe Janet – that brought tears to my eyes!!! I’m so glad you are still lurking because we certainly don’t see enough of you! 😉 Priorities, darlin’ priorities 😯

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 2:03 am

      Janeto! Wow! This was amazing! So beautifully stated- bless your kind heart!

  97. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 12:31 pm

    Thank you, Janeto. Beautifully said. 🙂

  98. 05/04/2013 at 12:47 pm

    watching the Nurm on his closing yesterday…. he’s on about the money in her account and why didn’t she take cash.

    NURM you idjit!!! She wanted the trail left… everywhere but the blackout zone… if she took cash there would have been NO trail of her trip. Smokescreen not working Nurmster…. your argument doesn’t make sense! Exit stage left ➡

    • 05/04/2013 at 12:50 pm

      oops that arrow is right exit.. oh well… that’s pure jenius for ya!

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 2:02 pm

        Syn, do they spell “genius” differently in your country? It makes me cringe to see the word “genius” spelled incorrectly as I know it. I’ve never seen it spelled “jenius” before.

      • 05/04/2013 at 2:04 pm

        hahah its a joke crystal ie such a genius they can’t spell the word

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 2:19 pm

        Oh gotcha! I thought it was a cultural thing and it was bugging me! Haha! 🙂

  99. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 12:50 pm

    Ok… ***waving****..I am off to the movie “mud” with that looker matthew mc. Hope you all have a wonderful day, nite, …….whatever applies!

    • 05/04/2013 at 12:51 pm

      byeeeee Moon! Enjoy the eye candy

  100. Robert in Rotterdam
    05/04/2013 at 1:15 pm

    ringadingding :
    I know…it’s hard to see that face and not read into it based on what came after.

    This link was posted earlier. Still spooks me.http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2013/03/travis-alexanders-last-photograph.html

    • 05/04/2013 at 4:09 pm

      yeah.. when I analysed that for someone originally…. it told me so much I actually created a complete scenario out of it quite unintentionally.

      Those mirror shots tell so much more than the photo, it’s actually prophetic. When I broke them down piece by piece it told a story I NEVER expected.

      • 05/05/2013 at 5:04 am

        Syn, do you have those thoughts posted anywhere that we can read them? I would love to read what your theories are

      • 05/05/2013 at 7:07 am

        no actually I don’t I’ll try to find them and put them on a page on my site and post a link.

        May take me a bit cos it was weeks ago now. But just for interest sake I’d like to have them so don’t mind doing it.

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 8:34 pm

      Thank you so much for this, Robert. That really shows how complex his emotions are. When I block out everything but the eyes, though, all I see is sadness. Maybe that’s just me, unable to separate myself from what he was about to go through.

  101. ringadingding
    05/04/2013 at 1:22 pm

    Just this past week, a woman in a nearby town tried to slash the throat of her “boyfriend” (a therapist who’d been fired for having relationships with clients) in his home. She made six slashes, but it wasn’t enough. He didn’t want to call the cops because it was a no no for him to have her in his home (a former client), so he tried to staunch the bleeding on his own. The wounds were not fatal. The next morning, she strangled him, had something to eat and went to an AA meeting where she confessed to someone what she’d done. They got her to the psych ward asap. The police said most of what she describes matches what they found. When asked why she killed him, she said it was because “he was a creep.” This was someone with a clear mental health problem, a history of violence and being abused. Unlike JA, with her phony fog, when this woman snapped she did not try to cover her tracks. Also, unlike JA, she was unable to kill him by slicing his neck even after 6 attempts. It really brought home to me the ferocity with which JA attacked Travis.

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      05/04/2013 at 1:30 pm

      OMG what are we producing as a species?

      You know through a lot of life, when I have encountered the bad and the ugly and the horrific, , I would recall the Roman playwright Terence who first said, in effect, “I am human; nothing human is foreign to me.” A form of stretching the concept of empathy. But the more I watch and read on this case, I am beginning to think that some things really are “foreign” to me..

      • ringadingding
        05/04/2013 at 1:46 pm

        It’s been a while since I’ve read M. Scott Peck’s book “The People of the Lie” but it lays out the following (which I took from an online review to refresh my memory):

        1. The evil hide their motives with lies.

        2. Evil people want to appear to be good.

        3. When confronted by evil, the wisest and most secure adult will usually experience confusion.

        4. Evil seeks to discourage others to think for themselves (fosters dependency).

        5. To oppose evil we must have an ongoing dedication to reality at all cost.

        This last one describes, for me, exactly what this blog and commenters are about: an ongoing dedication to reality.

    • 05/04/2013 at 1:37 pm

      ringading.. so much in this I’d love to go to.. but sticking to the relevant aspect for this trial…. 6 slashes to the neck and still not enough to be fatal.

      This clearly illustrates how sharp the blade was that Jodi used… compare… 6 slashes not nearly fatal not even enough to call 911.

      One unhesitating slice, cuts through the windpipe to the spine sharp enough to enable a gaping cut from ear to ear resulting in near decapitation.

      This was no ordinary blade! Very few people have blades like that laying around their kitchen.

      • ringadingding
        05/04/2013 at 1:46 pm

        Good point. And wow…just wow.

      • Douglme
        05/04/2013 at 3:42 pm

        Always thought she stole the knife from the restaurant…

      • MMD
        05/04/2013 at 4:32 pm

        Mel I never thought about it but you’re probably correct although I would have thought they would have checked that out. Then again she worked at sooooooo many restaurants, including her parents. Either that or she had some type of surgical knife/scalpel.

      • Kathy A.
        05/05/2013 at 5:58 am

        You know, I’ve always wondered about this – JA made the comment that she loved to watch Travis shave because he did it “the old fashioned way,” which I took to mean with a straight razor – an implement that certainly would have been sharp enough to slash his throat with the ferocity that was displayed.

  102. Robert in Rotterdam
    05/04/2013 at 1:23 pm

    Today is a ‘hit ‘n run’ day for me here. Been catching up on comments. jad and Syntara have me in pretzel like mental condition squeezing in the LDS and Hitchcock into those 62 seconds of hell. But, frankly, I’m beginning to think that when one encounters such calculating evil, a pretzel is the least that can happen to your brain.

  103. HJ Madison
    05/04/2013 at 1:46 pm


    This has probably posted before (written 4/25), but if you have not seen it, it is a fun summary of the many things we have seen/heard/thought of the “goings-on” within the trial. I found it when digging around for more detail about the remaining jurors.

  104. Robert in Rotterdam
    05/04/2013 at 1:48 pm

    Ok. Caught yup. Great to read you all. A lingering thought from yesterday. The image of wormi trash talking and saying “ladies and gentlemen” 3 dozen times. Coming from one who never sat – as the jurors did – in a straight back chair, who often picked his nose, had knees up on tables, slurped water, dragged time to a criminal level of slowness and dressed like a refugee from a thrift shop closet. Juan never had to say “ladies and gentlemen” once. he treated them like ladies and gentlemen and, that’s why. he didn’t have to say it 3 dozen times.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 1:58 pm

      To add to your good points: “the human lie detector” on Dr Drew analyzed that Nurmi pointed at the jury with his fingers in the shape of a gun several times. She said that was fatal!

    • Family of Law
      05/04/2013 at 2:33 pm

      Hellooooo Robert! All great points! The Wurm is a classless pig, and Juan is classy warrior. Do you think Wurmi will keep a copy of the sex tape for personal pleasure? Surely, he will miss hearing it, if not.

  105. Allison
    05/04/2013 at 1:51 pm

    Another question – trying to understand : So if the secret-message magazines never got to Matt Mc. from Ann Campbell – then Matt Mc. testiphony didn’t get corrected – ??? correct ??? So he said something that JA wanted corrected – but he never got a chance to correct it ??? Help me understand – if anyone knows. 🙂

    • Elexa
      05/04/2013 at 2:38 pm

      I don’t think he ever testified. At all.

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:12 pm

      Matt McCartney (sp?) did not testify for either side. His name came up because he was her ex-boyfriend. He was party to the forged letters regarding pedophilia, though that issue never got to the jury. His credibilty was non-existent. He, like others, provided information to the defense and prosecutors, but not from the stand. So, jailhouse “chatting” via the magazines may have been for him but it was shown to the jury during JA’s cross-examination by JM, since she “created it”. It was another way to attack JA’s credibility and character; the sneaky way she tried to communicate without being caught. If you saw the original testimony it was pretty amazing! She wrote numbers, indicating a page number, and then imbedded fragments of the statement very near the spine of the magazine. She used at least 2 magazines to get that one statement out and scrambled the phrases. Sneak! I thought it was a real turning point, not necessarily for the content (though that too was damning), but just how conniving and dangerous she can be.

  106. Family of Law
    05/04/2013 at 2:27 pm

    I love that Juan has asked for First degree with premeditation and FELONY murder. Hmmm…maybe JA shouldn’t have said she used Travis’s gun, removed it from the house, and ditched it in the dessert? Juan has her either way! If she stole the gun from G&G, that lends further proof to premeditation… If she stole Travis’s gun, and used it to shoot him, it’s felony murder! It’s a “lose/lose” scenario for JA! 

    I took what is below, off of HLN (I know, I know…) But I think it explains in laymen’s terms the charges the jury will be deliberating.

    Not guilty: (unthinkable)

    If the jury decides the prosecution didn’t prove its case, and they return with a not guilty verdict, Arias will be a free woman. She could then resume her dreams of becoming a professional photographer and starting a family (BARF). 

    Hung jury:

    There’s also a possibility the jury will not be able to reach a unanimous decision, in which case there would be what is called a hung jury. If the judge declares a mistrial because of a hung jury, Arias could face a retrial.

    However, if jurors think Arias is guilty, they will have more decisions to make.

    First-degree murder:

    The jurors have two paths they can take to reach a first-degree murder conviction.

    They can unanimously decide Arias is guilty of premeditating Alexander’s murder. Arizona defines first-degree murder as when someone plans or premeditates killing another person and carries out their plan.

    The jury can also convict Arias of first-degree murder with the legal theory called felony murder. If they find Arias caused Alexander’s death during the course of committing a dangerous felony such as burglary, they can also convict her of first-degree murder.

    In order to find Arias guilty of first-degree murder, the jury must unanimously agree that the prosecution has proven first-degree murder, but they all don’t have to agree on which first-degree murder legal theory was proven — classic premeditated first-degree murder or felony murder. Therefore, the jurors have two paths to first-degree murder.

    If Arias is convicted of first-degree murder, the case then moves to the aggravation phase, which will be like a miniature trial.

    The prosecution will have a chance to present additional evidence in an attempt to prove Alexander’s death was caused in a cruel manner. Arizona law defines cruel manner as when the victim suffers physical pain or mental anguish and the defendant knew or should have known that the victim would suffer.

    The jury would then deliberate for a second time to determine if the aggravating factor of cruelty is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

    If the jury does not find her guilty of cruelty, the case ends and the judge sets a sentencing date within 30 to 60 days. At the sentencing, the judge decides whether to sentence Arias to life in prison without parole or life with parole eligibility after 25 years.

    But if the jury decides cruelty is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the case moves to the sentencing phase.

    This is the defense’s opportunity to ask the jury for leniency and present evidence to support why Arias should be spared the death penalty. Witnesses may include Arias’ friends and family. Arias could also make a statement to the jury pleading for her life to be spared.

    The jury then deliberates for a third time to determine whether Arias should be sentenced to life or death. Their decision must be unanimous. In the case of a deadlock, a mistrial would be granted and a new jury would be chosen for this phase only.

    If the jury votes for the death penalty, Arias would be sentenced immediately, and she is likely to be sent to death row within hours.

    If the jury chooses a life sentence instead, the judge will set a sentencing date within 30 to 60 days. At that time, the judge will sentence Arias to life in prison without parole or life with eligibility for parole after 25 years.

    Second-degree murder:

    If the jury rejects first-degree murder, but finds her guilty of the lesser charge of second-degree murder, the judge will sentence Arias to no less than 10 years and no more than 22 years in prison.

    Arizona law defines second-degree murder in two different ways that apply to this case.

    Second-degree murder is when a person intentionally or knowingly causes the death of another person without premeditation.

    In the alternative, second-degree murder is also defined as when the defendant shows extreme indifference to human life, and recklessly engages in conduct that creates a grave risk of death, and causes the death of another person.


    If the jury rejects first-degree murder and second-degree murder, but finds Arias guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter, the judge will sentence her to no less than seven years and no more than 21 years in prison. 

    Arizona law allows the jury to reach a manslaughter verdict in multiple ways. Here’s what applies to Arias’ case:

    If the jury believes Arias recklessly caused Alexander’s death, they could convict her of manslaughter.

    Here is where the manslaughter charge gets complicated. In Arizona, if someone intentionally or knowingly kills a person without premeditation, the defendant could be charged with the crime of second-degree murder. However, if the jury believes the victim attacked the defendant, and if it was enough to incite the defendant’s actions, then the intentional killing would fall under the lesser crime of manslaughter.

    Don’t confuse manslaughter with self-defense. If the jury believes Arias’ self-defense claim, and her actions were reasonable under the circumstances, then they could acquit her.

    If Arias is sentenced to jail time, she will receive credit for the four-and-a-half years she has been incarcerated awaiting trial.

    • Robert in Rotterdam
      05/04/2013 at 2:46 pm

      Thank you for this. It’s clear, informative and will be very useful.

    • ringadingding
      05/04/2013 at 3:15 pm

      Thank you for this.

    • 05/04/2013 at 3:18 pm

      The felony murder is a stroke of genius!!!

      they can play with their bogus manslaughter.. but if that jury follows the instructions they are given there really is only two choices for them

      1st degree murder


      Felony murder.

      But who knows there may be someone on there who somehow does see a need to save Jodi and will be blinded by that need.

      • 05/04/2013 at 3:26 pm

        oops premeditated or felony that should be

    • Janeto
      05/04/2013 at 3:40 pm

      FOL, bless you!!! See, you too always make things easier to understand! Bravo!!! Perfect post!! 🙂

    • Jay
      05/04/2013 at 4:23 pm

      This too may be of interest:

      Subject to section 13-751, subsection B, a victim has the right to be present at the aggravation phase and to present any information that is relevant to the proceeding. A victim has the right to be present at the penalty phase. At the penalty phase, the victim has the right to be heard pursuant to section 13-4426.

      “Victim” means the murdered person’s spouse, parent, child, grandparent or sibling, or any other person related to the murdered person by consanguinity or affinity to the second degree… .

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 4:34 pm

        Hi Jay, nice to see you. I asked about that …. Donchais said that “impact” statements would come at sentancing. I did not read it that way, but the judge does have the right switch things around, I guess. Seemed odd — but with the DP and all … So, what did you think of closing?

      • jayjerome66
        05/04/2013 at 6:05 pm

        Mixed emotions. Glad it’s in in the jury’s hands now; sorry there was so much bitterness and overt hatred expressed during the hearings.

        Overall I thought Martinez was very persuasive and effective, but i wondered why he didn’t respond to Nurmi’s contention that all those transactions Arias made in Salinas,etc, indicated she wasn’t trying to hide her movements, but was constructing an alibi for her trip to Utah.

        Martinez should have shown a map of her route. It she was going to see that guy in Utah she would have taken a straight line drive on US 80. Instead she drove way south, down to Passadena, and across to Mesa. The visual aid of a map would have shown the extra distance she had to drive to reach Travis’s house, leaving no doubt of her motive going there.

        I only listened to snippets of Nurmi’s presentation, relying on WildAboutTrial for the synopsis. I knew he’d do the character assassination attack and didn’t want to hear it. He went over the line again, but I don’t condemn him with the vicious level of rancor others here do: he’s a product of the system, like an attack dog trained to go for the throat, and the legal system not only allows victim character assassination as a defense tool – it encourages it. Here in California I know of at least two prestigious law schools that teach it to student defense lawyers. The system traps defense lawyers into being assholes – damned if they use it, dammed if they don’t (failure to provide adequate representation, etc).

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 8:54 pm

        AZ has the best victims’ rights laws I’ve seen in terms of the amount of access they give the victims/families to be present at ALL proceedings that the defendant is present. It’s not that way in CA or other states.

      • Janna
        05/05/2013 at 3:06 am

        Does this imply that all of Travis’ core family members could be present?

      • Crystal Harris
        05/05/2013 at 1:32 pm

        I believe in Travis’ case, his “next of kin” are all of his sisters and brothers. In-laws wouldn’t count. As far as making Victim Impact Statements, they’ll probably allow as many sisters and brothers as want to to make statements at the sentencing hearing, and if there is enough time, and an in-law wants to make a statement in lieu of the sibling, that may be allowed.

  107. Kristy
    05/04/2013 at 3:04 pm

    I wonder why nothing was brought up regarding Jodi’s freshly shaven hooha. If she wasn’t planning on seeing Travis, then why that thing freshly shaven? She indicated Travis wanted her like that.

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 3:43 pm

      Good thing there are women on the jury. Lets hope they will figure that out …. it is hard to think about Juandreful talking about Jodi’s bare hooha …😖

  108. HJ Madison
    05/04/2013 at 3:40 pm

    Chris Hughes scheduled for Tricia’s True Crime Radio, Sunday at 8pm eastern, along with KatieCoolLady


    • 05/04/2013 at 3:57 pm

      ok that should be a really good one! Thanks for the reminder.

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 4:27 pm

        Oh my goodness Syntara, you either NEVER sleep or will end up “nocturnal” before this thing is done! I have been thinking of you today because we have a great science program here on public TV, called Nova. They have been showing a fascinating series on the primeval history of Australia and origin of the unique flora and fauna – it has been a captivating and welcomed diversion.

  109. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 3:50 pm

    MMD hon, I sure hope you feel better soon. So sad to know you are sick.. 😦 I want to thank you personally for so kindly welcoming me into the blog. I felt so comfortable right away! I think I officially made you our “newbie” greeter! 😆 I know it started taking it’s toll as the site grew larger, but you were excellent and perfect for the duty!!! Please feel better soon. I miss chatting with you and catching up with what you’ve written… Oh by the way….LeRoy Jethro Gibbs was awesome last week! 🙂

  110. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 4:12 pm

    You know, (just to say) when Juanderfuldelicious did his 1st closing, and went through the crime scene, I actually “felt” like I was there, in that bathroom watching Travis suffer! JM was SOOOO good, he had me crying! All the 4 months of testiphony, and real testimony put together the way he did, was sooooo damn compelling it jolted even me back to the true reality of this crime! Donchais and MMD were right! He did put his best foot forward when Travis needed him to…I didn’t even know Travis, but came to know him and his family as this trial progressed, and if I can understand even a minute bit of how the family feels, and not knowing him……..makes me realize what a very strong and classy family he has. There are no words in any language, that could possibly state the families pain and suffering they have had and continue to go through. I, myself don’t believe I could have sat there and not committed contempt in that courtroom! Lord knows I have committed it in front of my computer so many times I lost count. But after JM’s closing, I was so emotional I couldn’t even get on this site and comment. I was just in awe and speechless! Please, please Lord, don’t let this family suffer anymore from this B-itch. As Juan said, it’s time for her to bask in a much “different” light, not limelight!!!! Just thought I’d mention……….I feel better now, thanks…..

  111. 05/04/2013 at 4:21 pm

    Hey all. Lets not all go our seperate ways just yet. There’s still much to talk about. Its not over. Still much more to talk about with other cases, and this one in particular.

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:30 pm

      Hey Bubble! You are right — cause the little wench is going to get 1st degree and then we will get to hear about the “real” Jodistein. Can not wait!

    • Janeto
      05/04/2013 at 4:32 pm

      Hey bubble! Not going away just yet..I know more is up ahead and more trials. Just thought I’d say certain things now since I don’t post all that much…..still hanging around!

    • Douglme
      05/04/2013 at 4:32 pm

      I’ll be around!

  112. 05/04/2013 at 4:30 pm

    Hey HJ, or anyone who knows: when was the secret message brought out in the trial, other than yesterday?

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:35 pm

      During Juan Cross of the WOBO. I had just started watching the trial …. it was amazing! And I think she even smirked about it on the stand!

      • Janeto
        05/04/2013 at 4:38 pm

        Yeah she did, the Ho!! I started watching just a little before you did… 🙂

  113. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 4:33 pm

    Yes, when JA was under cross exam…….I remember like it was yesterday!!!!!

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:37 pm

      I think she giggled and smirked about it — do you?? I recall just being shocked by her response.

      • Janeto
        05/04/2013 at 4:39 pm

        She sure did! That’s when she said Matt M would never do her wrong too…..

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 4:42 pm

        Thats right! That was when she said something like he “would never betray me” and then back tracked. I hope the jury gets this right!!!! She is just so evil!!

  114. 05/04/2013 at 4:40 pm

    Has anybody seen Juan’s final rebuttal from yesterday on Youtube

    • Janeto
      05/04/2013 at 4:41 pm

      No I haven’t, but I would love to…..share the link when you get it….thanks

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:42 pm

      Watched it live ….

  115. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 4:40 pm

    Janeto :
    She sure did! That’s when she said Matt M would never do her wrong too…..

    Well never betray her!!!

  116. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 4:44 pm

    I watched it live too, but sure would like to see it again! He was batting 1000!!! Knocked it out of the park…..loved it!!!

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:54 pm

      There was a lot to like … especially that he got in the messages. For me, that just said it all. Surely CroakerQueen has the rebuttal up. My one regret was that Juan did not clarify the felony murder charge. Nurmi implied it was ridiculous that Jodi went to TA’s to steal a gun …. he just glossed over that was not it at all … she did steal the gun and when she did she was considered an intruder. Maybe too technical to try to go over again … “splitting hairs”.

  117. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 4:45 pm

    I was also really glad Juan put Laviorrett in her place!!!!! LOL!!!!!!

  118. Janeto
    05/04/2013 at 4:48 pm

    HJ Madison :
    Thats right! That was when she said something like he “would never betray me” and then back tracked. I hope the jury gets this right!!!! She is just so evil!!

    I do too!!! Please jury!!!!!! I’m gonna go out on a limb and say they will have a verdict no later than Tue. morning!! I hope

  119. 05/04/2013 at 4:48 pm

    I can find his closing, I may have found it. Will let you know in a few. MyCrimeDocumentaries: Say 55. Juan Martinez morning, and finish, it appears some is missing tho…

  120. 05/04/2013 at 4:49 pm

    He says “and she looked you in the eye and lied…” and she shakes her head…this bad man making up lies about her…

    • Janeto
      05/04/2013 at 4:54 pm

      LOL!!! right!

  121. 05/04/2013 at 4:51 pm

    Was it when he quotes her as saying “your scrambling my brain,” when the questions get to close

  122. Lisa M
    05/04/2013 at 4:53 pm

    Syntara :
    Lisa… did you read jad’s post above.. it offers an interesting take on why this little charade may have been played out.
    by the way I actually think for once Nurmi told the truth.. I think at least 9/10 times he doesn’t like her.. but I think he loves the opportunity she has brought him.. which is probably what drops it to 9/10.
    But lots of attorneys don’t like their clients doesn’t mean they aren’t doing the job for them. So if that was to pull the legal maneuver jad refers to.. in my opinion it ain’t gonna work anyhow or shouldn’t.

    Hey, Syntara, no I hadn’t read Jad’s post, but I went back and read it. That is an interesting take. I guess nothing is done without some ulterior motive, so yeah, it could be true, and especially since Juan objected to it, that makes sense. It’s just so stuuupid.

  123. 05/04/2013 at 4:53 pm

    He is describing the law, and her lies

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:56 pm

      Bubble: What is Jodi wearing?

      • 05/04/2013 at 5:04 pm

        She’s wearing the light blue top. It’s from yesterday I know. But was his final recap when he reads the law, and the differences between degrees. I’m trying to find when he brings up the coded message, and Nurmi objects, then side-bar. The truecrimedocumentaries handle for the video is good, (I don’t like viewing parts 1-9, etc) but I remember Juan describing what happened in the bathroom, and that ain’t on there…

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 5:09 pm

        That was the first thing, or so, JM did when he rebutted Nurmi. Should be late afternoon, following Nurmi. Jodi is wesring black sweater set.

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 5:10 pm

        Blue Shirt on Jodi was during Juans closing, day before yesterday. Then Nurmi, yesterday morning, followed by Juan on rebuttal.

      • 05/04/2013 at 5:19 pm

        HJ, day 56? would it be?

  124. Lisa M
    05/04/2013 at 4:54 pm

    What do you guys think was the reason that Jodi was brought up to the judge and the judge spoke to her along with her lawyers and Juan after the jury got the case?

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 4:58 pm

      Scheduling, what to expect at verdict time, how she expects Jodi to behave …. ???Lets just hope it was NOT inquiring about the price of her artwork!

      • Lisa M
        05/04/2013 at 5:25 pm

        LOL HJ — Lets hope not!

  125. 05/04/2013 at 5:16 pm

    This game of life she’s playing, loving, relishing, has now entered a new phase, and the stakes are high. I don’t know how much she realizes it yet. But, come monday, tuesday, shit is gonna get real…real serious. I expect her to lash out. Either when the verdict is read, or in her own statement to the court. Someone brought up many days, or weeks ago, the statement by Richard Allen Davis, killer of Polly Klaas. I remember it. Seem to remember watching it live. Somewhere around when the OJ case started. “She begged me, please don’t do me like my daddy did…” And her father lost it. Had to be removed from the courtroom.

    I put nothing past her. She will feel like she will need to have the last word. How she was abused and misunderstood by the jury. Despicable she.

    • Lisa M
      05/04/2013 at 6:03 pm

      When that bastard Davis said that, Polly Klaas’ father’s friend yelled out, “Burn in Hell, Davis!” Which he undoubtedly will do once he’s finally executed.

  126. 05/04/2013 at 5:21 pm

    Found it: Day 56 by croaker queen on yutube. Rebuttal, and jury selection.

  127. MMD
    05/04/2013 at 6:18 pm

    OT – Found a gazillion alerts about this. Not surprised but totally disgusted. The judge is very fair but Roy Black and his client are scum, imho.


    In scathing order, judge grants John Goodman a new trial based on allegations of juror misconduct

    Updated: 8:55 p.m. Friday, May 3, 2013 | Posted: 4:59 p.m. Friday, May 3, 2013

    Judge Colbath’s order granting new trial
    By Daphne Duret – Palm Beach Post Staff Writer


    More than a year ago, mild-mannered and jovial Dennis DeMartin almost chuckled as he concluded his life was boring compared to other prospective jurors in Wellington polo mogul John Goodman’s DUI manslaughter case.

    On Friday, however, a judge’s ruling tossing Goodman’s conviction and 16-year prison sentence because of DeMartin’s actions cast him among Florida’s — and perhaps America’s — most infamous jurors. DeMartin, a 69-year-old retired Delray Beach accountant, now faces a hearing on May 30 where contempt-of-court charges could be brought.

    The not-so-surprising reversal of Goodman’s conviction Friday also officially began round two in the most publicized Palm Beach County case in recent history. In the years since the February 2010 crash that killed Scott Patrick Wilson, the 23-year-old’s death has become the backdrop to a storyline of Goodman’s vast wealth, adult adoption, capped by a Bentley- malfunction-and-barn-drink defense during his March 2012 trial.

    Trial has been rendered void under the weight of DeMartin’s missteps, which last year centered around a drinking experiment he conducted the night before he and other jurors convicted Goodman. And more recently came revelations that he withheld from the court during jury selection that his ex-wife had a DUI he blamed for the end of their marriage, and a daughter who was the victim of rape during a home invasion robbery.

    In the end, Circuit Judge Jeffrey Colbath ruled, DeMartin’s repeated violations of his duties as a juror robbed Goodman, prosecutors and the citizens of Palm Beach County of a fair trial.

    “Every person charged with a crime deserves a fair trial without the likes of Dennis DeMartin,” Colbath wrote in an 11-page ruling.

    Colbath said DeMartin had a “reckless indifference” to the truth, and added that allowing Goodman’s conviction to stand in light of DeMartin’s action “would erode the integrity of the judicial system.”

    The ruling comes four days after DeMartin appeared in court for a second round of questioning since he and five other jurors convicted Goodman of DUI manslaughter.

    Colbath questioned DeMartin last year after he revealed in a self-published book that he conducted the drinking experiment. The judge ultimately ruled that DeMartin had committed misconduct, but said it had no impact on the jury’s verdict.

    But with the more recent revelations about DeMArtin’s ex-wife and daughter, Colbath decided that the actions had a cumulative effect of rendering Goodman’s trial unfair.

    Colbath appeared to be leaning toward tossing Goodman’s conviction during a Monday hearing, stopping the questioning of DeMartin twice as the Delray Beach retiree repeatedly attributed his omissions to a poor memory.

    “Why didn’t you tell us you were having these problems then?” Colbath asked him at one point.

    On Friday, Goodman’s defense team applauded Colbath’s ruling. His lead defense attorney, Roy Black, has long accused DeMartin of lying his way onto the jury with the hopes of landing a lucrative book deal. DeMartin said that he has only made $322 to date on the three books he’s published on Amazon.com since the trial.

    “A juror who deceives to get on a jury in a high-profile case for his own profit is a trial lawyer’s worst nightmare,” Black said Friday. “Fortunately, this time the deception was exposed and a courageous judge set aside the verdict.”

    Earlier this week, Wilson’s parents said the possibility of a new trial reopened the emotional wounds of their son’s death. Friday, Scott Smith, the attorney for Wilson’s father, William, said the his client was disappointed that Goodman’s conviction was vacated.

    “But he is more committed than ever to the State of Florida’s pursuit of justice and prosecution of the person responsible for Scott’s preventable and premature death,” Smith said of William Wilson.

    “As with the prior trial,” he added, “Mr. Wilson will be at the subsequent trial in honor of his son, and in support of those who continue to pursue this matter on behalf of the State of Florida.”

    Along with clearing the way for the new trial, Colbath’s ruling stirs up a host of new questions surrounding Goodman’s case. Local attorneys now wonder whether Goodman’s legal team will again argue to move the trial out of Palm Beach County, or whether they will come up with a new defense.

    There’s also the question of whether now-retired veteran traffic homicide prosecutor Ellen Roberts will be back to prosecute the case along with Assistant State Attorney Sherri Collins. Roberts on Friday said William Wilson is inclined to hire her as a private attorney to join the prosecution team, which past courts have permitted in Florida. But the ultimate decision will be up to Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg.

    Either way, the case prosecutors say cost more than $250,000 to prosecute through a three-week trial last year will be headed to trial again unless attorneys on both sides work out a plea agreement — which didn’t happen last time.

    • Moon
      05/04/2013 at 9:45 pm

      I saw some of that case on tru-tv… which has since pretty much failed us as far as in-session goes. I hear that’s why Beth K has lost her job with Turner. They made the wrong choice. He is another smug spoiled rotten brat who thinks he is the only one that matters! I have no doubt that he “paid ” and paid a large amount, to get this new trial. Money talks…
      More slime living among us.

    • 05/05/2013 at 10:46 am

      Thanks for posting MMD! I’ve been trying to follow this case and this was really helpful!!!

  128. 05/04/2013 at 6:46 pm

    Hey all, just happened to check on a couple other sites, see what people were talking about. Many lost souls, references to trolls, but nothing like the fellowship here.

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 7:00 pm

      Hear… Hear!

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 7:10 pm

      What impresses me most is the dedication to find the truth of this sordid event, by people from all over the globe.

  129. Ci Ci's Circle
    05/04/2013 at 7:11 pm

    Hello All…..we have a legal question maybe someone out there can answer for us….please. If JA told her attorneys the whole truth (yea right!…but just supposin’) and they are aware that she in fact planned it all and her story is what the State is saying (TA was not aware she was coming and she attacked him) are the attorneys required to come forth with the whole story or can they continue with the defense as they did, ie. self defense knowing full well that it’s all a lie? Don’t they owe the family a true explanation???

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 7:42 pm

      Hey ladies! Good evening! That is such a great question. A lawyer is not permitted to tell a falsehood in court or let his client perjure (lie) under oath. But, they are also bound by client privilege. Somehow, the defense must “carve” their representation of a client from there. Pretty hard to do. And this assumes that the lawyer really does care about ethics!

      In this case, my bet is that Nurmi does not believe JA any more than we do, as evidenced by the fact he tried a couple times to get out of this case. Lucky for him, Wilnot came along. And even though Nurmi thinks she is lying, he must go with what JA gives him! Self -defense meant she had to take the stand — the only way we could see and hear the lies for ourselves. Normally, the defendant NEVER testifies! And we got a lot because she took the stand — the coded messages, for example. I think Nurmi was glad she took the stand because deep down he wants her convicted as much as we do. But, he wants the verdict to stick. So, he did his job. Just my opinion….I know he is disgusting…..

      The real irony of what makes so many lies possible is that Travis can not take the stand! Because he can not testify and be cross-examined, JA can lie all she wants! So, the very fact that she slaughtered him is what makes it possible for her to spew her venom. She benefits from the very crime that brought us here. Amazing! And maybe THAT will change.

      No one will ever tell TA’s family what really happened. If Juan retires and writes a book about all he knows, like Vincent Bugliosi who prosecuted Manson did, maybe we will get close. Otherwise, sadly never.😞.

      Just in my humble opinion! Got to run for awhile, but I will be back.

      • Ci Ci's Circle
        05/04/2013 at 8:20 pm

        Thank you for the explanation!

    • Family of Law
      05/04/2013 at 7:52 pm

      Here’s a “Ethics in Law” synopsis… In short…Lawyers are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.

      When a defense attorney’s client wants to claim their innocence in the witness chair, under oath, and they know they’re guilty.

      Lying Defendant poses such an ethical conundrum arises from a perfect storm of factors:

      Anyone accused of a crime has a constitutional right to a defense.
      Because the burden of proof in the United States is on the prosecution to show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, the job of the defense attorney is to challenge and test the prosecution’s theory of guilt even when the accused is in fact guilty of the crime. The defendant not only has to be found guilty, he or she has to be found guilty for the right reasons, of the correct crime, using legally acquired evidence, with all the defendant’s rights as a citizen respected and protected, in a fair trial.
      A criminal defendant has a the guaranteed right to testify in his or her own defense. No one else does. A lawyer who knowingly allows a civil defendant or any witness to give false testimony can be disciplined and even lose the right to practice law. A lawyer who doesn’t allow a criminal defendant who insists on lying under oath to claim his or her innocence will be disciplined.
      An attorney is absolutely prohibited by the legal profession’s ethics rules from knowingly assisting a client, including a criminal client, in illegal or fraudulent conduct.
      Everything a criminal client tells an attorney in confidence for the purpose of developing a legal defense is privileged, which means it may not be divulged in court or anywhere else. This includes the words, “I am guilty as hell.” The lawyer may not say or do anything that reveals the privileged information.
      Lying under oath in one’s own defense is illegal.

      Got all that? Put them all together, and this is what a defense attorney faces when his client, who has admitted to his attorney that he is guilty as charged, insists on testifying falsely that he is innocent:

      The attorney must allow the defendant to testify, but the attorney cannot “assist” him in testifying. If the attorney refuses to examine the defendant on the stand, which is assisting him, then the attorney signals to the judge and the jury that the defendant is lying. If the attorney acts in a manner that shows that the client is lying about his innocence, than the attorney has revealed the substance of the client’s confidential communication that he is, in fact guilty, a violation of the attorney’s duty of confidentiality, the foundation of the attorney-client relationship.

      In other words, whatever a lawyer in this situation does, it will violate the ethics rules, the rights of the defendant, or the United States Constitution.

      The profession, filled as it has always been with clever people capable of making words and concepts do tricks, has devised various schemes to deal with this.

      • Family of Law
        05/04/2013 at 7:57 pm

        Hi ladies 🙂 You asked a great question, and it’s not easily answered- hopefully WIS sees your post, and weighs in! The Wurm has to know that JA is lying her (over used) ass off… There’s no way he could buy her loads of lies. And clearly he crossed “ethical lines” with his size 14 shoes! But did he do anything he could risk being disbarred? Nope, I highly doubt it.

      • Family of Law
        05/04/2013 at 8:06 pm

        To add to this… It’s why I believe The Wurm focused so much on “Travis being a sexual deviant”- he based a large percentage of his cross and closing, by trashing Travis. That’s all he had!

      • Ci Ci's Circle
        05/04/2013 at 8:22 pm

        Now we see the damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Nobody but the crook has rights! We respect the Constitution, but we truly do not believe that our Founding Father’s thought it would get so twisted to where the Victim would be on trial instead of the perpetrator. Thank you……you taught these ol hens something new!

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 8:51 pm

        right….. and this is why the US now had a “legal system” vs a “justice system” sad indeed

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 9:12 pm

        **has not had

      • nyccowgirl
        05/04/2013 at 10:15 pm

        FOL – if that is the case then why is Wurmi involved in all these stories whereby they are accused of lying (e.g., telling the Hughes that the pedophile letters were legitimate knowing that they weren’t and misrepresenting DeMarte’s testimony to Geffner which he clearly relied on during his). I remember a movie that covered this conundrum – can’t remember the name of the movie though. The lawyer kept something for a client which turned out to be the ‘weapon’ used to kill a woman, and after someone else was found guilty for the crime, he used the ‘weapon’ again to kill someone else. He died (I believe) and she tried to get the innocent person released and was eventually tried for accessory to murder.

      • 05/05/2013 at 10:54 am

        Thank you. Question for you: when Nurmi brought up JA returning the gas can to another Walmart and that they didn’t check all the other Walmarts, was this lying? He knew she stated on the stand she returned it to the Salinas store. He didn’t definitively state she returned it elsewhere but strongly implied it. He knew she stated Salinas yet he makes that statement which really irritated me and was a blatant lie.
        How does this jive with ethics and not lying?

  130. 05/04/2013 at 7:12 pm
  131. 05/04/2013 at 7:17 pm

    CiCi’s I’ve heard of cases where the defense knew where bodies were stashed…I’ve read of a couple cases, some involving Johnnie Cochran, where their clients confessed to the crime, but they still represented different theories of the crime to get the clients off…

    I remember a case of a child named Danielle Van Dam, kidnapped and murdered by David Westerlake…before the case went to trial Westerlake and his attorneys tried to make a deal that he would take investigators to her body for a lighter sentence. The DA didn’t go for it, so the defense then arguyed that Westerlake was innocent and had been framed, or what have you.

    • 05/04/2013 at 7:22 pm

      the defense is under no obligation to tell the truth, just to provide a vigorous defense. Most defense attorneys know their clients are guilty. That’s just an ethical dilemma. Maybe why many law school grads decide they just don’t have the stomach to represent animals with a straight face, or intact conscience.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 9:04 pm

      That was here in San Diego. God it was a scary case. Westerlake was a man, the neighbor, who had a good job, lived in a nice house, had children, didn’t have a criminal record (in his 40’s), and looked “normal”. This was the case that made me decide that you just cannot trust ANYONE! He got the death penalty I believe…not that he’ll ever die in CA. The last time an inmate was put to death in CA was almost 10 years ago.

      • Crystal Harris
        05/04/2013 at 9:05 pm

        Correction: Westerfield, not Westerlake

      • Marilyn N
        05/05/2013 at 12:57 am

        That was one creepy guy! Went right into their house and took that little girl in the middle of the night, right? And then had her in his trailer or motor home, raped and murdered her.

      • Marilyn N
        05/05/2013 at 12:59 am

        Oh and then the defense tried to blame it on the parents because they were into weird sex, swapping partners or something like that? Typical blame the victims!

    • Kathy A.
      05/05/2013 at 11:21 am

      I remember the Danielle Van Dam case and how despicable it was of Westerfield’s attorneys to withhold that information. I often wonder about defense attorneys who go to any length just to get their clients off – are they really comfortable with that person out in their community, free to come after their friends and family if they so choose? I know a defense attorney’s job is to defend the client, but some of the things they do are outrageous.

      • Crystal Harris
        05/05/2013 at 1:27 pm

        If I remember right, it was a long time ago, I think they actually found her body DURING the trial.

  132. Ci Ci's Circle
    05/04/2013 at 7:43 pm

    Wow….how sad is that! Thank you for the response. Guess the way we apply ethics in our lives and taught our children doesn’t necessarily apply to all. Wonder how they get up in the morning?

  133. 05/04/2013 at 7:45 pm

    Want some joy today, watch day 56, croaker queen part four. Clap out juanderful

    • 05/04/2013 at 7:46 pm

      “You fucked up!”

  134. 05/04/2013 at 8:17 pm

    Funny, the churchmarm front she wants to portray, then that note, suborning perjury, “You fucked up”

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 10:02 pm

      Oh I know! And Nurmi lumbers up objecting. We here were worried Juan would not get it in… but of course he did.

  135. Schaeffer
    05/04/2013 at 8:18 pm

    Re: What if a defense attorney knows their client is guilty

    It is not uncommon for a criminal defense attorney to specifically avoid asking their client if they are guilty, and/or if the client starts to voluntarily confess, the attorney will say “Don’t tell me, because then I can’t defend you the stand.” It is a mess all the way around.

    • 05/04/2013 at 8:26 pm

      Right, and they’ll say, I can’t tell you to get ahold of your wife and tell her not to press charges….but if she dropped the charges that’d be great.

  136. Ci Ci's Circle
    05/04/2013 at 8:26 pm

    Schaeffer :
    Re: What if a defense attorney knows their client is guilty
    It is not uncommon for a criminal defense attorney to specifically avoid asking their client if they are guilty, and/or if the client starts to voluntarily confess, the attorney will say “Don’t tell me, because then I can’t defend you the stand.” It is a mess all the way around.

    Thank you Schaeffer, HJ, and Family/Law! We appreciate everyone here. You all are a pool of knowledge!!

  137. Schaeffer
    05/04/2013 at 8:37 pm

    I have read conflicting opinions on whether the WOBO had to testify. It was my understanding that every criminal defendant has the absolute right to testify, and the absolute right NOT testify. In fact, every time I’ve seen a defendant tell the judge they have elected not to testify, the judge counsels them explicitly about their rights, and after establishing to their satisfaction the defendant understands the law, will ask the defendant once again if they wish to waive their right to testify.

    However, before this trial even started, the talking heads were speculating on whether WOBO would testify. Then when she was on the stand and was behaving so badly, I made a comment to the effect of no matter how strongly they advised her against it, there was no way in hell her attorneys could have kept WOBO from testifying, because they essentially had no control over her, and could not stop her.

    Someone informed me rather forcefully that WOBO HAD to take the stand, she had no choice, because she was claiming self defense. So, which is it? If a defendant claims self defense, do they have to take the stand, or can their attorney(s) establish self defense another way? (Assuming for the sake of this argument, the victim is deceased.)

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 9:12 pm

      Self-defense, in a case in which there are no other witnesses, seems like it necessitates the defendant to assert their justification on the stand. Right? Only if the killing happened in front of witnesses who corroborate that a killing is self-defense would a defendant be able to avoid taking the stand.
      The other problem Jodi had was she had to convince the jury of DV, in the complete absence of any other evidence of such. Without her testimony that there was DV, there would have been zero evidence of it. So she had to testify in order to establish this evidence.

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 9:21 pm

      Another good question. She did not have to take the stand, but the trial would have been TOTALLY different. Only she could tell us what happened, no one else. Assuming, of course, she was not still on the ninja story. Only she could testify to the “pedaphilia”, no one else was aware of it. Only she could explain the sordid details of forced sex and the history of abuse. Otherwise, there were just tiny clips from emails, like Lisa Andrews who wrote TA was more sexually aggressive than she. Nothing at all …. so, she really had no choice and THAT is what the “talking heads” meant.

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 1:53 am

      Hi Schaeffer :). You are correct, JA wanted to take the stand. No, whoever told she HAD to take the stand is incorrect. When someone enters a plea of “self defense”, it’s usually a good idea that the defendant takes the stand and tells their story. JA is a different story! She is an attorney’s worst nightmare. Remember when this all started, she waived her right to council, electing to lead her own defense! She did not change her mind and ask for council until her plea was denied by the State to allow the pedophilia letters into evidence. I honestly believe she has thought all along that with her as the pupateer, she could lead her attorneys to gaining her an acquittal. (The way she jots notes all throughout court, and passes them to JW- she is leading this defense) IMO, Perky buys into her DV claims, but I do not believe Wurmi does, again that’s why I feel he turned this into a sex, lies and Travis was a bad boy case.

  138. 05/04/2013 at 8:46 pm

    I still have a couple of unanswered questions: What did Arias do with the missing floor mats in the rental car? Why no mention of having to flip on the light switch when she ran in the closet? Surely she didn’t grab the gun in the dark.
    I still say this killing was blood atonement for adultery. Since Alexander’s’ deep involvement in the LDS church was the reason he wouldn’t marry a girl like Arias, she tried to blame the church for the murder in a blood atonement ritual.

  139. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 9:39 pm

    helloooo…. I thought the movie “Mud” was very good and Matthew McC did an excellent job!
    Was weird even getting away for a day… this trial has been my obsession since around day 4 (when Ryan B on the stand). I couldn’t even sit thru the entire movie without this trial coming up in my mind. Can you just imagine how those jurors are feeling?

  140. HJ Madison
    05/04/2013 at 9:41 pm

    CRYSTAL : WOW! I recorded and my husband and I just finished watching your story! You are one tough cookie, lady! We were impressed by your initial instinct to walk away — that took courage! Made me wonder what influence his father had on him. An amazing story — and women everywhere applaud your work to change the law — not just women — anyone who cares about justice! You have chutzpah, lady! Thank you for letting us be a witness to the story and your success.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 12:09 am

      Thanks. His father was hugely important. I also can’t stress enough how much stock I put into the whole “Anger Management” thing, ala Alyce LaViolette. They are a crock of shit. At the time in 1998, I knew nothing about these classes and they sounded so promising. That’s why I despise ALV’s entire life’s work. How many other women have stayed cuz of Anger Mgmt? Only smart thing I did at that time is that I refused to drop the criminal charges of spousal abuse. So 10yrs later, despite the fact that I never told family or friends what was happening in my marriage, there was lots of documentation of the abuse in terms of police reports and calls to 911, etc. Not to mention the actual tape recording of him raping me. That was crucial to a prosecution. There never would have been a prosecution without the tape.

  141. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 9:47 pm

    thanks for the link and reminder of Trish’s radio show.. I’m gonna dive in now!

  142. Douglme
    05/04/2013 at 9:53 pm

    HJ Madison :
    CRYSTAL : WOW! I recorded and my husband and I just finished watching your story! You are one tough cookie, lady! We were impressed by your initial instinct to walk away — that took courage! Made me wonder what influence his father had on him. An amazing story — and women everywhere applaud your work to change the law — not just women — anyone who cares about justice! You have chutzpah, lady! Thank you for letting us be a witness to the story and your success.

    Where can I find this to watch?

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 9:57 pm

      It ran on “ID” today, under the program title “Who the (bleep) did I Marry?”, Crystal’s segment is titled ‘Forgive and Forget’. It is repeating in the Midwest at 10 pm tonight. There will also be a new and upcoming Dateline featuring her story, Mid May, I think?

      • Douglme
        05/04/2013 at 9:58 pm

        thank you

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 10:33 pm

        do you mean midwest as in Colo? we are on DST right now.. I hope that it’s online at the same time!

  143. SeniorMoments
    05/04/2013 at 9:58 pm

    While we’re clearing up details(and thank all of you who are willing to share your knowledge!)….How exactly did JA change from Ninja to Self-defense? Did she tell Nurmi and he filed a document? Do you think Nurmi told her he couldn’t defend that theory of yhe case? Did she tell Det. Flores in interrogation? Was she confronted by him? When did she make the switch? I’ll be happy to look it up if someone will point me in the right direction!

    Crystal, I saw your story on DISC ID today. wow! Just wow! at what you’ve been through!

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 10:14 pm

      And another good question. All that I know is that Nurmi MUST have realized the evidence just DID NOT support the Ninja story. Samuels let it “slip” on the stand that he and Nurmi went to visit the WOBO in jail and “convinced” her to tell “the truth” i.e. the self-defense, battered woman syndrome, etc. Because, you know Jodi just did not see it that way, after all. (PUKE 😝). And then the floodgates open with Dr. Carp (who left the case due to health reasons). So, the switch-a-roo, must have been 2010 maybe mid-year. I wonder if there are any old news reports. She never admitted it to Flores, as far as I can tell. Or, of course, Donchaise may know.

      • nyccowgirl
        05/04/2013 at 10:57 pm

        I somehow thought that Nurmi only got involved when it became a pedophilia/DV type case because of his specialties so had assumed that she came up with it self defense first and that Samuels/Nurmi just helped her justify it with all these suggestions and books.

    • 05/04/2013 at 11:02 pm

      Just got finished watching David Lohr’s utube video..I think it was video 14 about the Ninja’s and Flores saying it was an unbelievable story..It is also her showing Flores how TA was on all 4’s as he was being attacked..I think that part is true but it was her that stabbed him in his back…She strattled him while he was on all 4’s stabbing him… google David Lohr and it will show the interrogation videos..It’s the one where Flores is leaning over the table looking at her hand that was cut by the knife…

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 11:15 pm

        I am sure that is why she so wanted to see the crime scene pics – she needed to see if she could sell that ninja story. Just shows how sick she is … her handywork.

        Nurmi was with the Public Defender’s office. He was assigned with Washington. Recall that whoever was assigned had to be a “death qualified” attorney. I think that actually had more to do with it than his current “specialty”. I think JA, herself, dreamed up the pedaphilia stuff. And, she blew it because first she claimed “little boys”, then the tape referred to young girls and finally he enjoyed having sex with her, as HLN talking head said “a surgically enhanced” adult female. Nurmi would have known she should stick to one age and gender.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 12:01 am

      Thank you! I appreciate that.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 12:19 am

      Thank you. 🙂

  144. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 10:03 pm

    Oh geeez it’s only Saturday. radtalk show on SUN! gonna scroll up and see Crystal’s post, and hopefully I will get to watch that..

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 10:17 pm

      Moon: I thought you meant you were going to go read-upstairs … funny! By the way, thanks for your review. I looked a while ago to see if you had returned because I would like to see “Mud” and I wondered if you liked it. Looks like a good change for Matthew McC.

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 10:22 pm

        lol Hi HJ! I thought he did a FANTASTIC job. (he’s just pretty darn MUDDY during the entire movie) but MY MY .. that body is sooo pleasing to the eyes!! 😎

      • Moon
        05/04/2013 at 10:29 pm

        i like him better with shorter hair, but I LOVE his voice/accent!! I think my fav movie of his (so far) is “a time to kill” — I am looking to his up-coming version of “philadelphia” Reese has a very minor part in this.

  145. Moon
    05/04/2013 at 10:17 pm

    ahh darn! I don’t get Dis ID i do get Discovery, but not ID… is this avail online? ty

    • Crystal Harris
      05/04/2013 at 11:58 pm

      I think DiscoveryID has a website with some clips, but since my show is from last season, I’m not sure what’s there.

  146. HJ Madison
    05/04/2013 at 10:31 pm

    nyccowgirl :
    FOL – if that is the case then why is Wurmi involved in all these stories whereby they are accused of lying (e.g., telling the Hughes that the pedophile letters were legitimate knowing that they weren’t and misrepresenting DeMarte’s testimony to Geffner which he clearly relied on during his). I remember a movie that covered this conundrum – can’t remember the name of the movie though. The lawyer kept something for a client which turned out to be the ‘weapon’ used to kill a woman, and after someone else was found guilty for the crime, he used the ‘weapon’ again to kill someone else. He died (I believe) and she tried to get the innocent person released and was eventually tried for accessory to murder.

    Sounds like a great movie! Maybe I will dig around in Netflix Crime Drama …

    • HJ Madison
      05/04/2013 at 11:02 pm

      Okay, how about “Guilty as Sin” with Rebecca DeMornay and Don Johnson. Came out in 1993. Can’t get it streaming 😞. Too bad!

      • nyccowgirl
        05/04/2013 at 11:13 pm

        Sorry HJ, I led you astray. It was an episode of Law & Order: SVU – Confidential (Season 11, Episode 15). Recap: http://allthingslawandorder.blogspot.com/2010/03/law-orde-svu-confidential-recap-review.html

      • HJ Madison
        05/04/2013 at 11:22 pm

        Oh funny! LOL😃. I love movies so I was happy to go off and search. That movie does look pretty good though! I have never seen Law and Order SUV, so would have been blissfully unaware. What a big story to squeeze into an hour show.

  147. 05/04/2013 at 11:48 pm

    Thank you so much guys for all of your awesome answers. I watched Juans rebuttal an i gave him a standing ovation alone in my living room lol..the comment about the paper trail everywhere but AZ was brilliant! The ball went out of the park into Wormi’s backyard. He did an amazing job closing out the trial. The defense team looked completely defeated! Their faces were priceless.

    The hair color issue is much more clear to me now as well. Her hair was DEF dirty blond in the pics from May Wormi showed and the cell phone picture taken on June 3rd was dark hair on her whole head…no highlights, nothing. Phew! All my questions and concerns about the DT are now put to rest.

    Time for Justice. Time for Travis. Time for the needle.

  148. 05/05/2013 at 2:33 am

    OK I’m sure this has been noted but I didn’t see it.

    I think Donoman truly proved it’s class that last day in court. A shirt with a skull on it?????

    Yeah it’s super smart that Donoman! unfreakinbelieeeeevable Easy to see why its under Jodistein’s spell. Jodiestein the jenius WOULD look like Einstein to that one!

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 3:38 am

      Syn, I’m hoping you may have some insight about this. if Juan Martinez knew in advance of the trial that Arias has Borderline Personality Disorder, etc. do you think he may have consulted with professionals in the mental health field to help establish an effective strategy for questioning her on the witness stand.

      • 05/05/2013 at 6:40 am

        Could you reword that leaving out the BPD pls Janna

  149. Janna
    05/05/2013 at 3:59 am

    Another nagging question tumbling around my head — has anyone considered the possibility that Travis’ hands and forearms were restrained (by duct tape) as part of a sexual fantasy ploy by Fogstein and maybe that’s why he couldn’t adequately defend himself against the knife attack??

    • Schaeffer
      05/05/2013 at 7:53 am

      Ummm, no. That is not possible in any way, shape or form.

      • 05/05/2013 at 9:11 am

        agree Schaeffer!

  150. 05/05/2013 at 5:36 am

    Another gem from Ms Tabulararsa warning, if you need to pee do so before watching 😝

    • 05/05/2013 at 7:02 am

      hahahha can you imagine how many more breaks we would have had with that playing! surprised it wasn’t her ring tone and her giving signals when she wanted that gallery fan club to ring it.

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 10:39 am

      That is hysterical!

    • HJ Madison
      05/05/2013 at 11:56 am

      LOL😂THANKS for the morning laugh!

  151. Kathy A.
    05/05/2013 at 6:27 am

    Crystal Harris :
    AZ has the best victims’ rights laws I’ve seen in terms of the amount of access they give the victims/families to be present at ALL proceedings that the defendant is present. It’s not that way in CA or other states.

    I have to to toot Arizona’s horn here for a moment. I live in Pima County (Tucson), about 100 miles south of Phoenix. The Pima County Attorney’s Office was the first in the nation to develop a victims’ advocacy program (1975). The program has worked hard to improve victims’ rights within and access to the criminal justice system in the U.S. and has become a model, called on to train law enforcement and others in other states on how to implement an effective victim advocacy program. Also, because of the program staff’s expertise, they are called upon to assist when there are multiple victims and very chaotic scenes. They help with notifications, providing resource information, counseling, and whatever else is needed, and were called in after both the Oklahoma City bombing and the September 11th attacks, Columbine, the Virginia Tech shootings, and to Bosnia, and also dealt with Tucson’s own mass shooting two years ago.

    The amazing thing is that there are 25 full-time paid staff members, but approximately 125 volunteers who go through extensive training and do it because they want to help people who are in crisis get through it and get through the difficult criminal justice system when necessary, where victims’ needs are often cast aside. It’s something for Arizona to be very proud of, especially in contrast to some of the negative perceptions our court system is receiving during this trial. I’m sure the victim advocates have been with Travis Alexander’s family every step of the way.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 6:37 am

      Yes, you should be proud in AZ. I have a friend who is a prosecutor in Tuscon, and whenever we compare notes about my experience as a victim here in CA compared to what victims in AZ go through, she just shakes her head for me. In CA, there is a committee in the legislature called the Public Safety Committee, and it’s sadly referred to as a place where victims’ rights bills “go to die”. Luckily, my bill went through the legislative committee. In CA, Dems control more than 2/3 of the legislature, and the biggest contributor after labor unions is attorneys. They fight for criminals’ rights.

    • MMD
      05/05/2013 at 8:15 am

      Just from watching the treatment that the Alexander family received I was very impressed with the AZ system. It seems that victims play a very important role and are considered in every aspect of the case. Just with what I have read here this morning and saw in court I am truly impressed so kudos to AZ state for providing their many services to victims.

  152. 05/05/2013 at 6:42 am

    Hello to anyone who is around **waves** 😀

  153. 05/05/2013 at 6:50 am

    Crystal, if sometime you know your dateline episode is available on youtube (often I find some on there not necessarily dateline though) could you let me know. Thanks.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 1:19 pm

      Sure…will do.

      • 05/05/2013 at 1:23 pm

        ty cos thats the only way I will get to see it being in Aus. 🙂

  154. 05/05/2013 at 6:55 am

    Hi Syn, I’m here. Spent some time reading your pages this arvo. Good job girl!!

    • 05/05/2013 at 6:59 am

      Hey Essem 😀

      totally OT do you follow footy at all? I can’t believe I have been so caught up in this trial I don’t even know who is on top of the ladder so far and that’s UNHEARD of for me.. that’s how involved in this trial i’ve become.. know more about something that’s happening in Arizona than I do in my beloved AFL!!

  155. 05/05/2013 at 7:11 am

    Syn my name is Sheryn and to stop people calling me Sharon I tell them my name is Sherrin, like a football 😊so yes I do follow the footy. Sadly my Crows haven’t won a game yet and we lost Walker for the season last weekend for knee reconstruction 😱😱 no idea how anyone else is going except Melb are prob doing worse. Who do you follow? And what’s happened to Jim?

    • 05/05/2013 at 7:22 am

      wahahahahahaha sherrin!!! Love it!!!

      I just checked the ladder and my beloved bombers are on top and wow!! what a percentage!

      Really surprised at the top 4 some glaring omissions.. early days yet though. Port up there.. now THAT’s a shocker but not seen the draw they have had.

      OMG crows not won a game?? Yeah see this is what I mean that top 4 has some glaring omissions! Oh NOOOOOOO not a knee reco for Walker.. oh that’s really heartbreaking!! Poor guy!!! He’s a highlight when watching any crows game bet a few supercoach teams cried about that one!

      I actually heard from Jim first time for ages today.. he’s off on vacation of sorts. Had to change his plans and go to Atlanta for extended stay as his mum broke her elbow, needs a full replacement and will be alone in her house after surgery most of this month. He’s gone there to look after her. Hope he doesn’t mind me sharing that with everyone. He’s such a sweety!

      • 05/05/2013 at 7:30 am

        Ah, Bombers are my second favourite team. Port are going well so being a Crows fan it’s a bit awkward at the moment with the gloating Port fans. Tell Jim if he doesn’t read this I wanted to catch up with him about something he mentioned a way back. I’ve had something similar and had really good results.

      • 05/05/2013 at 7:32 am

        think he will be popping in his Monday.. I will try to ensure he does… he’s a unique resource for everyone here because of his law enforcement background. He’s inisghtful and knowledgable I’m sure a number of us value his input. I know I do.

      • 05/05/2013 at 7:35 am

        Essem *nods* fully understand the Port thang! Have it here between eagles and shockers.

  156. 05/05/2013 at 7:11 am

    Kathy A. :
    You know, I’ve always wondered about this – JA made the comment that she loved to watch Travis shave because he did it “the old fashioned way,” which I took to mean with a straight razor – an implement that certainly would have been sharp enough to slash his throat with the ferocity that was displayed.

    Me tooo Kathy A it was my first thought.. I smiled when a juror asked about that. Did you catch it? Someone else thinking along the same lines… and she answered no i consider it old fashioned cos he used shaving cream and a bic. Surely Juan would have followed up on that asking family members because he actually questioned her at the time that he didn’t hear her answer and she repeated bic and he made a notation.

    • 05/05/2013 at 7:18 am

      Yeah me too! I’ve got a fab set of Scanpan knives but I can’t imagine they’d be anywhere sharp enough to do that damage in one slice so a straight edge razor did sound like a fit but I’m sure if it was a possibility Juan would have sussed it out.

      • 05/05/2013 at 7:25 am

        He certainly thought a lot about that juror question.. his ears perked up… he got her to restate her answer.. and he made a deliberate note. So I am assuming it was one of the first things he asked the family after that session.

    • Schaeffer
      05/05/2013 at 7:58 am

      Straight edge razors are sharp, but very delicate, The blades are thin, less than 1″ wide, and are not a “fixed” blade but rather on a hinge.. They only slash necks in the movies.

      • Kathy A.
        05/05/2013 at 1:00 pm

        Ahh…I did not know that. I guess I’ve watched “Sweeney Todd” way too many times. 🙂 I did notice, as Syn mentioned above, that a juror asked about it and Juan Martinez made note of it. My perspective of old-fashioned shaving and the defendant’s are completely different: I think of a mug with shaving soap, a brush, and a straight razor; she thinks shaving cream and a Bic razor. 🙂

  157. 05/05/2013 at 7:48 am

    Goodnight 😴😴 I’m off to bed don’t know why 😲but I keep waking up at 2am lately and then just have to check my iPad to see what’s happening so my body clock is out of whack. Even the last few days I’ve still woken up without trial being on. Friends were saying “you’re obsessed” but I wasn’t setting the alarm, I’d just wake up at the right time.

    • 05/05/2013 at 7:58 am

      night Sheryn! 😀 catch ya soon

  158. Schaeffer
    05/05/2013 at 8:18 am

    The issue of why PPL changed its name to LegalShield has popped up repeatedly. WOBO was a peon in that company, and she did not represent it in any way. Even in all the headlines and media coverage, I’ve never seen anything tying her to the company, a la “High Ranking PPL Employee Kills Boyfriend.”

    WOBO didn’t even make the “Give me second degree murder or I will ruin Travis’s name” threat until July 7, 2011, and the murder had nothing to do with where either one of them was employed, other than he was a star and she was a waitress who couldn’t hold a job. . Even with her making that threat, it had nothing to do with PPL, and there is no way the company could have known how far she would take her lies. As tempting as it is to look for something shady if it has to do with WOBO, it does not apply here. The company was sold in 2011 and the name was changed, simple as that.

  159. 05/05/2013 at 8:41 am

    lol! Schaeff… here use this girl! ➡ **oxygen**

  160. 05/05/2013 at 9:11 am

    Good Morning all. I hope we are all fasting and praying along with Travis’ family. I keep thinking about JA 4 alleged claims of abuse by TA, and I think this ‘thing'(I refuse to call her a person or human!) doesn’t know the first thing about real abuse. I like most people on this site, and around the world following this trial, know what true abuse is. My sisters and I were abused from the time we were very little girls by the one person who we were supposed to rely on to protect us from abuse! We were innocent children, who didn’t know any better. For years I thought this was the norm; the abuse lasted well into my twenties, because I was convinced this was how the rest of my life was supposed to be. I managed to get out there, meet a great man, get married, have great kids, and enjoy my life. I protect my children because I can’t imagine not doing that! I still feel affects from the abuse to this day! I have trouble being intimate, and I can’t finish anything I start – especially if things are going well for me….because I think I don’t deserve anything good to happen to me; I still feel like that abused little girl! I consider myself lucky though (if that’s possible!)….because three of my sisters have never been married….one has never had a relationship with anyone!

    Part of the reason I started paying so much attention to this trial is because I read an article about JA claiming self-defense, and the paedophile claims…so I had to watch the trial to see for myself. And I can tell you that this thing truly does not know true abuse….and Travis was not a paedophile!!

    • 05/05/2013 at 9:21 am

      I just want to add that the reason I am talking about something as personal as this, is because I felt insulted every time the DT brought up this nonsense….and trashed TA. I just wanted to show that after what my sisters and I have been through….we never killed anyone!

      • ringadingding
        05/05/2013 at 9:26 am

        ITA. I hear you on that.

      • Kathy A.
        05/05/2013 at 1:05 pm

        Thank you for talking about what happened, although I am sorry you ever had to go through that in the first place. I think this case makes people want to share because the excuses her defense team is making: PTSD, Battered Women’s Syndrome and abuse in general, makes people who have actually endured domestic violence and trauma are insulted, as you are, because it’s all such a crock of B.S.

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 12:17 pm

      WTJ- Thank you for talking about your personal experience, I’m so sorry you had to endure what you did, no child should ever know what you know.

      I’m so happy you found a good man, and have great kids! I don’t (know) you, but I KNOW you deserve every happiness!!!!! I’m sending GIANT (((((((HUGS))))))

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 1:14 pm

      I’m sorry for your abuse and trauma. It is so obvious to all of us that Jodi is lying, and it is insulting and maddening to have her try to put herself in our group. Because she is such a lying heinous person, she sets back everything we have been working for in the courts for decades. She can not be allowed to get away with this. It would be a travesty.

  161. Schaeffer
    05/05/2013 at 9:19 am

    Just in case somebody missed, it, croakerqueen has uploaded a 4 minute video (no audio) of the courtroom after it was all over. WOBO is intently reviewing some paperwork with the mitigation specialist — WITHOUT her glasses, since the jury has left the room. There is great footage of Juan looking relaxed and laughing, too.

    • 05/05/2013 at 9:56 am

      oh thanks for this Schaeff!! 😀

      • 05/05/2013 at 10:05 am

        omg.. do you see Nurmi on his phone? and how the bailiff comes up to her and seems to say “It’s time to go” and she just slowly packs up her things.. and even pours some water!!!

        Oh yeah. that’s exactly the “i can do what I want” attitude I’d expect from the psycho. Always stamping her element of control on every situation.

        This is why she needs the DP.. not for any other reason that it will take all control from her and she will suffer. That is the ONLY way to make this thing suffer take it’s control entirely.

        Thanks again Scheaeffer, liked seeing Juan laugh too when he was “conversating” with Det Flores. 😉

      • Schaeffer
        05/05/2013 at 1:51 pm

        I didn’t intend to put the video here, only the link. How do I do that?

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 10:57 am

      Thanks for posting this! Wow! Yup, she takes her costume prop off the minute the jury leaves- Was that juror 8 sitting behind her? And then walked up and sat next to the judge?

    • Kathy A.
      05/05/2013 at 11:38 am

      Great video. Everything about JA’s attitude makes me want to slap her across the face every time I see her. Did you guys notice on Friday when court resumed following Wurmi Nurmi’s closing and just before Juan got up for his final closing, how she stared defiantly into the camera for what seemed like a long time while standing for the jury to enter?

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 1:07 pm

      Jodi has always stated she only needs her glasses for distance. Though she does always leave then on when the jury is present, but now takes then off when the jury is gone.
      That was NOT juror #8 that walks up to the Judge in this video. The guy in the white shirt is court staff. The guy in the blue shirt at the end I think is Mike, the court reporter. Whoever it is, I guarantee it’s not #8. That would be totally inappropriate.

  162. ringadingding
    05/05/2013 at 9:25 am

    It seemed that a lot of information that was deemed too prejudicial against the perpetrator was kept away from the jury. I wonder why that same standard isn’t applied to allegations against the victim? I don’t understand why JA is allowed to trash the man she murdered without any solid evidence, mostly just her word and a few sources that were manipulated/interpreted to benefit her story. Even the so called sex tapes are, in my mind, unreliable. There’s no way of knowing her role in driving those very un-sexy conversations in which both seem to be role playing.

    If the same standard were held with regard to the victim, it would not prevent a true case of self-defense from being presented, as there would likely be more evidence than just the defendant’s words.

    • Crystal Harris
      05/05/2013 at 12:56 pm

      Legally speaking, the simple reason is because the State isn’t trying to kill Travis Alexander.

  163. Irie Girl
    05/05/2013 at 9:31 am

    I can’t make myself go back a watch Nurmi’s closing statement again, so I will just ask here, did he say LaOlivette’s testimony was evidently stricken?

  164. Moon
    05/05/2013 at 9:46 am

    LoL about the SEX tape! Can you imagine the chit chat going on…. and then to be interrupted with “what was that?” “what did you say”? Talk about killing the moment!!!

    • ringadingding
      05/05/2013 at 9:57 am

      I know! It’s such a drag when someone has to repeat their sexy pedophile talk.

    • 05/05/2013 at 10:07 am

      yeah and getting him to repeat that 12 year old bullshit was so contrived. She knew she was recording it…. and that was an important bit to get him to repeat. She heard it.. it was as clear as the rest.

      Manipulative Biatch!!!

  165. Moon
    05/05/2013 at 9:48 am

    Not to mention how the ho.. trying to sound all saltry and sexy just sounds like a whiny 12 yr old girl.

  166. CC ...
    05/05/2013 at 10:05 am

    Everyone on here is so great. I really appreciate all the insight and brilliant observations. Thank you! I don’t know if this has been asked (and answered) before so forgive me if this is a repeat question but … has anyone speculated what it was Travis found out about the skank and would reveal about her that out the killing mission into action?

    • Moon
      05/05/2013 at 10:12 am

      I continue to believe he found out she recorded that call and was telling him ok if you don’t change your mind and take me to Cancun I will share this with Mimi and the Bishop and all your PPL friends. I think that thought crushed him. He had no idea she taped it and then she used it to try to get her way. I think that was the scam.

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 10:20 am

        Thanks, Moon. I was thinking along those lines but what a fecking drastic response to that!!!

      • Crystal Harris
        05/05/2013 at 12:54 pm

        That’s totally what I think, too. She recorded the call to gain power over him. When that didn’t work, she had to turn it up a few notches.

    • 05/05/2013 at 10:15 am

      Skye and Chris Hughes can’t even come up with it. It could just be a culmination of so many things with one final simple one finally tipping him over the edge and saying “I’m going to tell everyone what you’ve done” meaning all of it.

      Trigger could have been that half email she ‘accidentally’ sent him from what was obviously a fictitious Steve Carell (40 yr old virgin). Her refusal to admit the truth he so desperately needed to hear from her. Or there could have been something we don’t know about.

      I tend to think it was everything built up with just one final something that tipped him to clarity. Realising the truth of what Skye and Chris had been trying to tell him for all that time and suddenly so many things just fell into place for him and he came out of his denial.

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 10:22 am

        Thank you, Syn, as always, for your insight. And how very unfortunate for Travis to have crossed paths with this evil bitch.

      • 05/05/2013 at 10:23 am

        you arent wrong!!! Nobody expects these ppl to be the way they are because they start of being Mr or Ms Perfect.

      • 05/05/2013 at 10:25 am


      • Kathy A.
        05/05/2013 at 11:54 am

        You know, whenever a guy has broken up with me, I have often found that the best way to win him back is by stalking and threatening blackmail. Makes him reconsider what a good thing he gave up and inspires warm and fuzzy feelings toward me. “Oh, now, honey, aren’t you impressed by my dedication to this relationship by the fact that I’ve been hiding in your bedroom closet for three days, watching and admiring you?” She is such an epic failure of a person. Poor Travis. He had such a bright future ahead of him, and as Juan Martinez said, all he wanted was for her to leave him alone.

      • 05/05/2013 at 11:57 am

        LMAO “such an epic failure of a person” Now that is a quote worth stealing!!! 😀

      • 05/05/2013 at 11:58 am

        I know.. it’s all he wanted.. and she couldn’t live without him.. she even said it in her freaking diary.. and it was the one time she said “I’m glad no-one will read this” I actually think that was one of the VERY rare truths she ever wrote in those thousands and thousands of pages.

      • 05/05/2013 at 11:59 am

        correction It wasn’t really truth.. the whole truth was

        “I can’t live with him not choosing me”

  167. CC ...
    05/05/2013 at 10:06 am

    That should read *put the killing mission into action.

  168. Moon
    05/05/2013 at 10:25 am

    Oh my i can’t keep my eyes open and its almost 830 am. bbl (((ev1)))….waving…

    • 05/05/2013 at 10:26 am

      Ciao Moon! snooze well! 😀

      • Janna
        05/05/2013 at 11:25 am

        Syn – In regard to Reply #510, I’d like to take a second swing at my question. Given the psychopathy of Arias, would this have influenced the manner in which she was questioned by the Prosecution.

        ‘m thinking back to your “empty shell” analogy pertaining to the defendent.

        As a prosecuting attorney, would an “empty shell” sitting on the witness stand be questioned the same as a “non-empty shell” or differently.

  169. 05/05/2013 at 10:41 am

    I can’t concentrate on anything this weekend! I can’t wait for 9:00a PDT time tomorrow! And I love that they can get right to it….w/o any delays!!!! No DT in-chamber meetings or annoying sizzlin’ sidebars!!!!

  170. 05/05/2013 at 10:58 am

    Family of Law :
    Here’s a “Ethics in Law” synopsis… In short…Lawyers are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.
    When a defense attorney’s client wants to claim their innocence in the witness chair, under oath, and they know they’re guilty.
    Lying Defendant poses such an ethical conundrum arises from a perfect storm of factors:
    Anyone accused of a crime has a constitutional right to a defense.
    Because the burden of proof in the United States is on the prosecution to show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, the job of the defense attorney is to challenge and test the prosecution’s theory of guilt even when the accused is in fact guilty of the crime. The defendant not only has to be found guilty, he or she has to be found guilty for the right reasons, of the correct crime, using legally acquired evidence, with all the defendant’s rights as a citizen respected and protected, in a fair trial.
    A criminal defendant has a the guaranteed right to testify in his or her own defense. No one else does. A lawyer who knowingly allows a civil defendant or any witness to give false testimony can be disciplined and even lose the right to practice law. A lawyer who doesn’t allow a criminal defendant who insists on lying under oath to claim his or her innocence will be disciplined.
    An attorney is absolutely prohibited by the legal profession’s ethics rules from knowingly assisting a client, including a criminal client, in illegal or fraudulent conduct.
    Everything a criminal client tells an attorney in confidence for the purpose of developing a legal defense is privileged, which means it may not be divulged in court or anywhere else. This includes the words, “I am guilty as hell.” The lawyer may not say or do anything that reveals the privileged information.
    Lying under oath in one’s own defense is illegal.
    Got all that? Put them all together, and this is what a defense attorney faces when his client, who has admitted to his attorney that he is guilty as charged, insists on testifying falsely that he is innocent:
    The attorney must allow the defendant to testify, but the attorney cannot “assist” him in testifying. If the attorney refuses to examine the defendant on the stand, which is assisting him, then the attorney signals to the judge and the jury that the defendant is lying. If the attorney acts in a manner that shows that the client is lying about his innocence, than the attorney has revealed the substance of the client’s confidential communication that he is, in fact guilty, a violation of the attorney’s duty of confidentiality, the foundation of the attorney-client relationship.
    In other words, whatever a lawyer in this situation does, it will violate the ethics rules, the rights of the defendant, or the United States Constitution.
    The profession, filled as it has always been with clever people capable of making words and concepts do tricks, has devised various schemes to deal with this.

    Lisa :
    Thank you. Question for you: when Nurmi brought up JA returning the gas can to another Walmart and that they didn’t check all the other Walmarts, was this lying? He knew she stated on the stand she returned it to the Salinas store. He didn’t definitively state she returned it elsewhere but strongly implied it. He knew she stated Salinas yet he makes that statement which really irritated me and was a blatant lie.
    How does this jive with ethics and not lying?

  171. MMD
    05/05/2013 at 11:01 am

    Hi all – ***********waves************ I just want to say ditto to wtj!!!! I can’t think about a damn thing except this trial and how very much I want a verdict, a correct verdict, like yesterday!!!! Tried to read, can’t concentrate 😦 Tried to get caught up on some tv, can’t concentrate 😦 I however am NOT desperate enough though to watch Wurmi’s closing but I guess that’s a given. 😉

    • 05/05/2013 at 11:20 am

      Hi MMD! Glad I’m not the only one….I just want this verdict already! 1st degree and nothing less.

    • 05/05/2013 at 11:39 am

      Me too! I’m sitting outside church to get up on all posts. Can think of nothing else. Praying for justice and Alexander’s. I still can’t get over their class in the midst of extreme suffering and sitting thru all the nonsense.

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 11:40 am

      Morning MMD 🙂 I’m with you, I can’t concentrate at all- my head is all over the place, jumping thought to thought. I hope there is a verdict by tomorrow night!!!! (the right verdict, Murder 1)

  172. CC ...
    05/05/2013 at 11:04 am

    Syntara :
    you arent wrong!!! Nobody expects these ppl to be the way they are because they start of being Mr or Ms Perfect.

    It is just inconceivable to me, the depths of this heinous response!
    And by the way, I don’t know if it is just because I’m looking for it or what but her physical look keeps getting creepier and creepier to me. Gaunt, dressed in black, cold stares, etc… She was hiding it so well before. I hope it means she is realizing the dance is almost over. Of course, this is all probably wishful thinking on my part. For all I know, this “thing” isn’t capable of this line of thinking either.

    • 05/05/2013 at 11:55 am

      CC.. I’m under the same delusion. She just seems to me to get more and more evil looking. Thinking I’m projecting my inner subjectivity but oh I hope it’s true.. even if it’s temporary it would be nice to think she is suffering just a little bit!

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 12:27 pm

        I am relieved to know I am not alone in my thinking. How I wish she could be suffering if only temporarily (at least ) also.

    • Kathy A.
      05/05/2013 at 12:03 pm

      Her look is getting worse; I think her “mask of sanity” is finally slipping away and revealing her true self (“Mask of Sanity” is a book that was published in the 1940s that laid out 16 characteristics of a psychopath and described the “mask” they put on to hide their psychopathy. JA fits just about every one of the characteristics, but I’m sure Syntara is much better versed in this, and she has talked quite a bit about JA’ psychopathy).

      • 05/05/2013 at 12:09 pm

        yup Hervey Cleckley.. I’ve referenced his “Mask Of Sanity” a few times 😀

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 12:30 pm

        I certainly hope this has not escaped the jury’s notice. It is freaking shudder-worthy!

  173. Allison
    05/05/2013 at 11:29 am

    I am wondering if we will ever be able to know all the behind the scenes things – like the Alyce stuff in chambers and the Matt McC hearing thing with the pedo. forges. Is there a time when everything is put out for the public to read???

  174. Katie
    05/05/2013 at 11:31 am

    Hello everyone! Wonderful insight from you all as usual.

    So I’d like to know….

    What piece of evidence do you think will seal Jodi’s fate? And what piece of evidence makes you nervous (if any) that we won’t get the verdict I think we all are hoping for? And what was your favorite juan moment????

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 11:44 am

      Favorite Juan Moment …

      “Ma’am were you crying when you were shooting him? Were you crying when you were stabbing him?”

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 12:32 pm

        And to continue … “How about when you were cutting his throat, were you crying then?”

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 11:55 am

      Piece of evidence that will seal Jodi’s fate …

      The crime scene photo of Travis with his throat cut from ear-to-ear and the pic of her pant leg while dragging his bleeding body (with camera in hand inadvertently taking photo of this scene)

    • 05/05/2013 at 12:30 pm

      For me what seals her fate is the 48 hours and inside edition stuff, her phone call to Travis.. re Othello.. I mean that is SO out there if you know what that play is about…. and her first phone call to Det Flores.

      Enough to tell me she is a pathological manipulative liar and not one word out of her mouth can be believed.

  175. Family of Law
    05/05/2013 at 11:32 am

    Hello everyone 🙂 I’m sipping my coffee and trying to catch up here!
    I’m feeling very anxious about this coming week… The very real possibility of their being at least one JA sympathizer on the jury, worries me.
    We all know far more about this case than the jurors do, with our exposure to media coverage and Internet. We know about evidence that was deemed too “prejudicial” to the defense- (I would convict her of 1st degree just having seen the police interrogation tapes!)

    I think Juan’s closing arguments were so brilliant, the way he walked them through the evidence, and brought the jury into Travis’s bathroom on June 4th, 2008. Juan did a great, thorough job of reminding them of the important testimony, and testiphony.

    I hope the jury was disgusted by Wurmster’s need to play the “sex tape” AGAIN! And of course, didn’t play any of JA’s voice, and her promptings! I hope the jury understood that this DT CHANGED their “self defense” claims in the eleventh hour, to “heat of passion”! I can still hear Wurm saying “maybe she just didn’t know when to stop…” It was a desperate move on the defense’s part…

    I’m trying to remind myself that Juan charged this case masterfully “Murder 1 with premeditation, Felony Murder” Surely either way JA will be damned… I HOPE!

    • 05/05/2013 at 11:48 am

      same FOL.. same! Jittery and kinda hyper here about the verdict coming down in her favour.

      Much the same reasoning as you just outlined… time for a hug and reassure each other! 😀

      • Family of Law
        05/05/2013 at 12:02 pm

        Hi Syn 🙂 I’m glad you’re still here! I have been thinking about what you said the other day re: the Gacy post- I would LOVE it if you could get a crack at JA in person! I propose we all raise money to get you an airline ticket to Maricopa County! I think you’re our only hope at ever knowing what REALLY happened on June 4th- wouldn’t that be amazing? Of course if that ever was a real possibility, we’d also have to send you to the “Marival Spa” (Oprah’s favorite luxury retreat) just so you could restore your well being after such a horrific exposure to the Devil!!!!

        Someone upstairs posed a question about the missing floor mats from the rental car… That’s bugging me now, there really hasn’t been anything about that that’s definitive… Is there?

      • 05/05/2013 at 12:17 pm

        FOL quite seriously I have some plans in this regard.. whether I can pull it off is another thing.. but I have definite plans.. but she needs to be on DP to give me a better chance!

        Re he floor mats nup think they are with the clothes…. burnt somewhere?

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 12:18 pm

        I agree – since Syn as mentioned numerous times (need a cross eyed emoticon here) you can’t study a dead brain which would be my preference. So while the numerous appeals are going on, I think we should Syn loose on JA, for science’s sake of course 😆 until she gets all the data she needs then in goes the needle!!! Syn HAS to stay away from my man JM though, that’s the only perquisite 😯 I’m assuming the stance ❗

      • Family of Law
        05/05/2013 at 12:27 pm

        Syn- if this becomes a reality, I WANT to help! OMG, it would be amazing if you had an opportunity to “unravel her”!

        But you would have to steer clear of Juan, I see MMD is ready to “assume the stance”! lol!!!

      • 05/05/2013 at 12:42 pm

        I replied to that nonsense! 😀

      • Crystal Harris
        05/05/2013 at 12:47 pm

        I feel so confident, given the rare insight we’ve had into the jury via their questions, that there is no way all 12 will agree to less than Murder1. While a hung jury would suck, it would mean a re-trial, where conviction rates by the prosecution are nearly 100%…no exaggeration. So in my mind, there are two possible outcomes, Murder1 (or felony murder), or a hung jury. Either one I can live with. I just do not see ALL 12 agreeing to lesser charges. No way.

    • Kathy A.
      05/05/2013 at 12:12 pm

      I agree; I worry that there will be someone on the jury who is of the mindset of an ALV or Dr. Quack Samuels, who feels sorry for her and buys her line of B.S. (by the way, Alyce, you sent her magazine subscriptions and books because “jail is boring” and look what she did; she used the magazines to try and tamper with a witness}. But I hope not. One thing that does give me hope about this jury – the three jurors who were dismissed have not talked to the media. They have remained silent, which indicates to me – maybe incorrectly – how seriously they took this case and don’t want to do anything to jeopardize it. I remember in the Scott Peterson case how the infamous Juror Number 5 (what is it with the number 5, anyway?) was dismissed because he had spoken to Laci’s brother and displayed other inappropriate conduct; he could not WAIT to go on all of the news programs and blab, and he thought Scott was innocent, so it’s good he was removed. Keeping fingers crossed and nervously awaiting the verdict.

  176. 05/05/2013 at 11:45 am

    Janna :
    Syn – In regard to Reply #510, I’d like to take a second swing at my question. Given the psychopathy of Arias, would this have influenced the manner in which she was questioned by the Prosecution.
    ‘m thinking back to your “empty shell” analogy pertaining to the defendent.
    As a prosecuting attorney, would an “empty shell” sitting on the witness stand be questioned the same as a “non-empty shell” or differently.

    Janna ok I can work with this.

    After watching how Juan dealt with Jodistein on the stand I thought wow I would love to know what his history is with these types of people. The someone posted in a link to his previous female defendant in a DP case (Wendi Andriano) and there was a hearing regarding a male on DP I can’t remember the details I really should keep this stuff I always assume I will remember it!

    Anyhow, I think he has a natural aptitude. That coupled with his experience and learning along the way he may have developed a natural ‘feel’ for it AND/OR he could well have some good profilers he can turn to for advice.

    These people are EXTREMELY hard to handle and you can’t treat them as ‘normal’ they will simply run you in circles, exactly as you saw Jodistein doing to Juan. Many assumed that was advise from her council, but I know, through experience with subjects similar to her AND my personal relationship with one just like her – that is how they are. They do your head in with obfuscation, diversion and avoidance and you bang your head on the wall as she claims Travis did. I think, after seeing her on the stand sparring with Juan, we can all understand that reaction to her!

    In this case, thank heavens for the jury questions. She was not as guarded with those so she gave some straight answers. Finally Juan had something to work with! It was through these questions Juan was able to pin her down with a lot more. She dared not avoid answerintg their questions and she had no idea some of them were hiding an agenda. This is when I think CEO and Tri Colour were identified by the DT as alerts. They saw them asking a bunch of questions, that’s the feedback that was coming through form peels in the court… but I digress.

    • Janna
      05/05/2013 at 12:08 pm

      Thanks for your thorough reply Syn.

      I’m sick to my stomach about the possibility of juror situation being underhanded. If anything, I’d like to see major overhaul to the process being used in Arizona so jurors cannot be flagged or identified when submitting questions. IMO – it should be a far more inconspicuous/obscure process for the jurors.

      • 05/05/2013 at 12:24 pm

        I’m sick to my stomach and in disgusted shock the Nurmi referenced the jury questions and the two dismissed jurors in the same sentence.. wth was he thinking? Does he think that is going to make the jury think anything but “hang on did they manipulate the jury?”

      • Crystal Harris
        05/05/2013 at 12:39 pm

        Any attempt to single out jurors by the Defense will heavily backfire. Given the high volume of questions to Jodi, Samuels, and ALV, there is truly no way the defense knew which juror asked which question. Please. Even if they did, there is no process that the defense has for getting rid of jurors they don’t like. Anyone who thinks so is being paranoid. Each juror that was excused was done so for valid reasons in this case, not at the defense’s behest.
        When Nurmi referenced “bad haircuts” in his closing, he was insulting the jury….not a smart idea.

  177. 05/05/2013 at 11:54 am

    Some part of me would have like to have Juan count each stab wound out with is recounting of the story that was so mesmerizing EXCEPT it would have been tortuous for the family. But in her evil way,that would have been delightful for her. Goodness nothing is the way it seems naturally speaking, but we know she’s not!

    • MMD
      05/05/2013 at 12:24 pm

      I so wanted him to do that as well, just so they would realize exactly how long it did take. Maybe when we get to the penalty phase he will do that!!!

      • 05/05/2013 at 12:47 pm

        Same I really really wanted him to have a huge clock counting down 62 seconds on that screen large screen.and even run through part of her scenario visually demonstrating how ludicrous it was. Stopping when he got to the 0 and showing how much was still left to do.

        Course he thinks it started 44 sec earlier… but it couldn’t have if you go by the DT story. If he had done that in the final rebuttal they couldn’t have come back with an argument.

      • 05/05/2013 at 12:52 pm

        Im betting he wanted to… but the DT got the judge to disallow it or something.. I just cant imagine him not doing it cos he raised that 62 seconds so many times throughout the trial esp when she was on the stand.

    • nyccowgirl
      05/05/2013 at 12:45 pm

      I also thought it would have been effective to go through her version and add in the period of the fog and how impossible it would have been to cover in 62 seconds, including counting of the stabs. He sort of covered this during cross, and I thought he was saving it for his rebuttal closing. His soft manner though of taking the scene through TA’s perspective though was so heartwrenching. How could you not follow that visual?!!

  178. 05/05/2013 at 12:06 pm

    Morning all. I couldn’t even watch Nurmi the first time. Will watch Juan’s closing again today.

    • CC ...
      05/05/2013 at 1:13 pm

      Morning, Bubble … That’s what I did last night … Watched JM’s closing … Replete with eye rolls and smirks and head shaking … And not just from the evil skank. JW was doing the same thing. I thought attorneys were not allowed to do this. Is this not comtempt in the legal sense?

  179. 05/05/2013 at 12:14 pm

    Janna :
    Thanks for your thorough reply Syn.
    I’m sick to my stomach about the possibility of juror situation being underhanded. If
    anything, I’d like to see major overhaul to the process being used in Arizona so jurors cannot be flagged or identified when submitting questions. IMO – it should be a far more inconspicuous/obscure process for the jurors.

    Good morning everyone~~~~waves~~~~~
    I agree Janna. Maybe because of this trial, the process will change. I was surprised that submission of questions is such an open, non- protected(jurors)’ process.

  180. 05/05/2013 at 12:20 pm

    Family of Law :
    WTJ- Thank you for talking about your personal experience, I’m so sorry you had to endure what you did, no child should ever know what you know.
    I’m so happy you found a good man, and have great kids! I don’t (know) you, but I KNOW you deserve every happiness!!!!! I’m sending GIANT (((((((HUGS))))))

    Thank you, FOL. I really appreciate that.

  181. MMD
    05/05/2013 at 12:22 pm

    Good bubble you’re here. Maybe you can answer this question.

    I heard this mentioned during JA testiphony and then JM referenced it with regards to her visit when he said and I’m paraphrasing – “and they were having an intimate moment and then the defendant adjusted Mr. Burns, whatever that means………….”

    So what exactly is adjusting???? a hand job???? curious minds would like to know 😀

    • HJ Madison
      05/05/2013 at 12:41 pm

      When did JM make the paraphrased “and they were having an intimate and then the defendant adjusted Mr. Burns” …. during his close?

      • nyccowgirl
        05/05/2013 at 12:49 pm

        He said it during close but it was a dispute that occurred during Burns’ and JA’s testimonies where he said she did it and she said he lied and that he did it himself. It occurred sometime when she was on top of him, which was also a bit of semantics as to whether she was fully on top or not.

    • 05/05/2013 at 12:46 pm

      @MMD, Burns said they kind of got hot and heavy but there was never genital contact, my impression was that he got a chubby, and needed a shift. On the stand she accused him of being “full of crap.” And she tried hard to minimize their make out session, where she was lying, it wasn’t a bed, it was a “love sack.” etc, etc. Her only motivation was an alibi, she probably couldn’t even stand the guy. It seems she was kind of, ahem, “in and out” for the visit.

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:20 pm

        TY darlin’ 😆

  182. HJ Madison
    05/05/2013 at 12:34 pm

    Good morning all~~ CC & Syn: I have been wondering about the same thing. I never thought she was especially attractive to start, but she just gets more and more disgusting. And the gestures … iissshh. Imagine what she will morph into after she gets 1st degree. Once convicted, the rules change and a lot more creepy detail will be allowed to come in about her. As always, should be fascinating to observe.

    • CC ...
      05/05/2013 at 12:43 pm

      Thank you for saying that, HJ. It is really unnerving to me. Syn is right … the evilness is oozing out in her physical form with each passing day! I hope someone in the jury does not think “I cannot risk finding her guilty of murder 1 because I fear for my (or my family’s) safety. We all know people in jail can (and do) get people outside of jail to carry out their agendas. OK, I need to breathe and relax.

      Also, I have never thought she was particularly attractive either.

      • nyccowgirl
        05/05/2013 at 12:53 pm

        Some have said that the predominant male jurors are good for the defense as they wouldn’t be able to give a woman DP, especially with all her fake crying, but I’m just hoping that they put themselves in TA’s shoes and imagine if some psychopath made fake accusations about them and stalked/manipulated them that way. I’m praying that resonated with them.

  183. 05/05/2013 at 12:39 pm

    MMD :
    I! Syn HAS to stay away from my man JM though, that’s the only perquisite

    but.. but.. but MMD (hello by the way 😀 ) how can I not sit down and discuss it with him? Me and him’s gonna be a team like batman and robin… ok maybe more like Clarice, Hannibal and whoever Clarice’s love ineterest was. You know who plays which role don’t you 😛

    • MMD
      05/05/2013 at 1:02 pm

      Darlin’ he won’t give a damn about JA once she’s convicted and get the DP so ya won’t even need to talk to him. He only cares about the fact that he’s cleared the case and gotten justice for TA and the Alexander family. Truly, he has soooooooooooooooooo many cases, that he just won’t have time for ya. Sorry 😉 Ya can annoy him by bothering him and I’m sure he’d be polite, but in the entire scheme of things, he has more important things to do.

      • 05/05/2013 at 1:03 pm

        Yes he will. He wants the truth for the Alexander family!!!

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:22 pm

        As you’ve been saying throughout the trial, she doesn’t know the truth, only the truth that exists in her tiny pea brain sized mind! 😉

      • Ci Ci's Circle
        05/05/2013 at 1:27 pm

        We plan on sending him a “Thank You” card (for all his hard work). Is that ok with you?

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:31 pm

        I think that is a wonderful idea ladies! 😀

    • Family of Law
      05/05/2013 at 1:05 pm

      LOL!!! Fava beans and a nice chianti!!! MMD, you might need a plane ticket to Mesa as well, just in a supervisory manner!

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:43 pm

        Where do ya think I am now??????? 🙄 just don’t tell ok!

  184. 05/05/2013 at 12:47 pm

    @MMD, I answered you upstairs. Dashed off for a minute to read the rest of the world’s bad news.

  185. HJ Madison
    05/05/2013 at 12:52 pm

    One thing to remember ev1 …. and important I think….. This is a “death qualified” jury. Many studies have shown that “death qualified” means they tend to be more “conservative” and they tend to prefer “incarceration” as opposed to “rehabilitation”. Every one of them had to say they were willing to impose death without knowing much, if anything, about this case. Think a the number of we, here, could not have been on that jury …. and yet every voice I have heard here is screaming for Murder in the 1st. ….

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      05/05/2013 at 1:23 pm

      We took a poll here in our little group and not one of us would have a problem giving a death penalty. We even voted to have it re-instated in CA. We believe in an eye for an eye….maybe it’s just the generation we come from and the fact Manson got his death penalty changed to life when CA repealed the death penalty. We’ve always said, perpetrators should get the same treatment they put their victims through before they killed them!! I guess we sound a little rough around the edges, but we’ve seen sooooo much in our years and fear for our sons and daughters and our grandchildren. Oh well……

    • MMD
      05/05/2013 at 1:23 pm

      exactly, and I’m NOT a proponent of the DP EXCEPT in this case. Just want her to cease to exist and soon.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  186. Family of Law
    05/05/2013 at 12:55 pm

    Lisa :
    Thank you. Question for you: when Nurmi brought up JA returning the gas can to another Walmart and that they didn’t check all the other Walmarts, was this lying? He knew she stated on the stand she returned it to the Salinas store. He didn’t definitively state she returned it elsewhere but strongly implied it. He knew she stated Salinas yet he makes that statement which really irritated me and was a blatant lie.
    How does this jive with ethics and not lying?

    Hi Lisa 🙂 That’s the million dollar question- I thought Wurmi made a BIG mistake when he tried to muddy the testimony re: the gas cans, he made an assumption that the jury was NOT paying close attention to prior testimony, that’s why Juan jumped all over that during his following close. Legal ethics are IMO one of the most widely debated heated topics in US law. It’s extremely complicated- way beyond my limited understanding. But, attorneys get away with lying ALL the time, with no charges filed against them, it’s a horrible truth.

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:15 pm

      I have a question on this that I forgot to post actually.

      If the jury want the testimony about this.. to actually clarify what she said.. are they able to request either the video or the transcript of it?

      …AND does anyone here know when it was she said it.. obviously some time when she was on the stand that much I know but theres a lotta days of that crap!

      • HJ Madison
        05/05/2013 at 1:25 pm

        Yes, the jury may ask. The lawyers will confer and the Judge will decide whether their question on ANY matter will be answered. With testimony, they will probably get a “read back” if they ask. I am hoping the ask for and get a map.

      • 05/05/2013 at 1:29 pm

        or someone on the jury knows the route and could explain it to everyone else maybe draw a mud map of their own to show it

      • 05/05/2013 at 1:30 pm

        Lots males on the jury… traditionally that’s a male domain so hopefully there is one who travels a lot or just knows the routes

      • HJ Madison
        05/05/2013 at 1:34 pm

        Agree.. agree. I have to think (hope anyway) between 12 people surely one can explain the route!

  187. 05/05/2013 at 12:55 pm

    MMD :
    Good bubble you’re here. Maybe you can answer this question.
    I heard this mentioned during JA testiphony and then JM referenced it with regards to her visit when he said and I’m paraphrasing – “and they were having an intimate moment and
    then the defendant adjusted Mr. Burns, whatever that means………….”
    So what exactly is adjusting???? a hand job???? curious minds would like to know

    She jumped on top of him, straddling him and adjusted him so his jewels were aligned with her hoochie hole.

    • CC ...
      05/05/2013 at 1:00 pm

      Hoochie hole seems too benign for this demon….more like a cavernous entrance to evil.

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:26 pm

        I really like cavernous entrance to evil 👿 Much more appropriate imho!

  188. CC ...
    05/05/2013 at 12:58 pm

    nyccowgirl :
    Some have said that the predominant male jurors are good for the defense as they wouldn’t be able to give a woman DP, especially with all her fake crying, but I’m just hoping
    that they put themselves in TA’s shoes and imagine if some psychopath made fake accusations about them and stalked/manipulated them that way. I’m praying that resonated with them.

    Yes, I had heard that too. I am praying, fasting and lighting candles with specific wishes to the universe for justice … for Travis and his family.

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:02 pm

      I hope on the jury there is a

      1. Bubblebutt
      2. Robert
      3. Jim

      If their personas are there.. we are done! 😀 Together those 3 could convince anyone!

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 1:05 pm

        Indeed so! 🙂

      • Family of Law
        05/05/2013 at 1:08 pm

        Oh I hope, I HOPE!!!!!!

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:24 pm


  189. 05/05/2013 at 12:59 pm

    Nurmi better hope that “bad haircut” juror isn’t one on the final 12.. Did they identify who that was hence they knew that person wasn’t going to be the jury?

  190. 05/05/2013 at 1:04 pm

    Family of Law :

    Lisa :

    Thank you. Question for you: when Nurmi brought up JA returning the gas can to another Walmart and that they didn’t check all the other Walmarts, was this lying? He knew she stated on the stand she returned it to the Salinas store. He didn’t definitively state she returned it elsewhere but strongly implied it. He knew she stated Salinas yet he makes that statement which really irritated me and was a blatant lie.
    How does this jive with ethics and not lying?

    Hi Lisa That’s the million dollar question- I thought Wurmi made a BIG mistake when he tried to muddy the testimony re: the gas cans, he made an assumption that the jury was NOT paying close attention to prior testimony, that’s why Juan jumped all over that during his following close. Legal ethics are IMO one of the most widely debated heated topics in US law. It’s extremely complicated- way beyond my limited understanding. But, attorneys get away with lying ALL the time, with no charges filed against them, it’s a horrible truth.

    Thanks FOL for your response to my question. I think his comment was purposeful and that he was aware of her testimony. A couple of attorneys on hln commented that he forgot her testimony following a comment by someone else regarding his Walmart gas can comment.
    It seemed to me they didn’t want to go there re: blatant lying.

  191. 05/05/2013 at 1:06 pm

    I find it hard to accept/understand the part of what evidence can be introduced, too prejudicial. In that case why have ANY evidence as it is prejudicial against the defendant. Craziness.

    • HJ Madison
      05/05/2013 at 1:20 pm

      Do you know about the Cynthia Sommer case? That is a really good example of what is too prejudicial and why it is excluded. I guess what I am saying is these rules, as unfair as they may be when applied to JA, are in place for all of us. Imagine being falsely charged with any crime … it happens in our imperfect system …

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:22 pm

      me tooo Ive given up on that one long ago.

  192. Janna
    05/05/2013 at 1:08 pm

    I understand that conversations with LDS Bishops are privileged under law – BUT I keep asking myself how the Bishops who were directly involved with Travis are processing his murder and the enormous ripple effect. Presumably, certain Bishops would have been privy to deeply personal self-reported matters about Mr. Alexander that are not admissible in court.

    On the flip side, would Deanna Reid have consulted with individuals in the church prior to giving testimony, or did she not have a choice about testifying?

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:25 pm

      I don’t think they are with LDS bishops… it’s a different kind of ‘set-up’ than the more traditional bishop priest roles.

      They aren’t the same here I know that.. can’t speak for the US obviously

    • MMD
      05/05/2013 at 1:37 pm

      I wrote a reply to this and it is somewhere in cyberspace. According to Observer when I asked this question about confidentiality a long time ago, bishops, etc. in the LDS faith are laypeople and do not have the same confidentiality privilege as do say a rabbi, minister, priest, etc. that members of other faiths have.

      As for Deanna, once you’re under subpoena, you gotta appear, whether you want to or not or else you can be held in contempt of court and/or and arrest warrant can be put out.

  193. Ci Ci's Circle
    05/05/2013 at 1:12 pm

    JM made a reference to that in his final rebuttal. It was directed to Nurm the Wurms hairdo we think. It’s one of the things he referenced in rebut to the Wurms remarks to anyone’s sexual preference and “bad haircut”. JM clearly asks the jurors “did you hear anyone reference the Duh-fense’s bad haircut” and motioned in the direction of the Wurm. Then JM made reference to the remark the Wurm made to “sexual preference” (always sex coming out of the Wurm’s mouth!). Watch JM’s final closing. He starts right out with rebutting the Wurm’s comments that he started his closing with. Let us know if we didn’t see it this way. Could just be us!

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      05/05/2013 at 1:14 pm

      Oops….should have done a reply! This is in response to Syntara’s comment regarding the bad haircut question. It was:

      05/05/2013 at 12:59 pm | #637

      Reply | Quote

      Nurmi better hope that “bad haircut” juror isn’t one on the final 12.. Did they identify who that was hence they knew that person wasn’t going to be the jury?

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:27 pm

      well if it was.. and I was the juror who wrote that bad haircut question.. I’d be thinking it was directed at me. So another major farkup by the Nurm

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:28 pm

      hahaha I swonder if its about Perky’s bad haircut… we have sure referenced she needs another hairdresser often enough!

      He just shouldnt have gone there!

  194. CC ...
    05/05/2013 at 1:30 pm

    MMD :
    I really like cavernous entrance to evil Much more appropriate imho!

    And I’m trying really hard not to picture it since I did not heed the warning to look away!
    Love the devil emoticon 🙂

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:32 pm

      grand canyon… a la the psycho number plate

      ……..ANL 709………
      Arizona-Grand Canyon

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 1:35 pm

        Haha! I was trying to be kind and call it only cavernous.
        Note to self —kind to her? Wat was I thinking?

      • MMD
        05/05/2013 at 1:39 pm

        Obviously CC ,,, you were confusing her with an actual human being 😉

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 1:44 pm

        I shan’t let that happen again! 😉

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:41 pm

      still can’t believe thats’s the genuine number plate from psycho and Jodisteins DOB is 7/09

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 1:45 pm

        This is where we cue in the music from “Twilight Zone.”

      • 05/05/2013 at 1:46 pm

        I freakin know.. it’s like wow that could actually be Jodisteins personalised numberplate!!

      • 05/05/2013 at 1:46 pm

        if she had a car registered in AZ of course

  195. 05/05/2013 at 1:35 pm

    ooohh the returning of the gas cans was a juror question??? Juan just said in final rebuttal… “she told you she had taken it back to that walmart and received cash” you being the jury cos he is addressing them.

  196. C.I,
    05/05/2013 at 1:37 pm

    I have a question – sorry if it has already been asked and answered. While deliberation are going on is JA brought back to the courtroom to sit in her holding cell or is she left at the jail untii a verdict is reached

    • MMD
      05/05/2013 at 1:41 pm

      I hope they lock her in a closet without food or water and forget about her but I digress. She probably will be in the courtroom every day because I don’t think they will take that long.

      • HJ Madison
        05/05/2013 at 1:51 pm

        Oh MMD … and this is why we missed you so! I can only imagine the closet in hell that could contain her cavernous hole. You make me laugh!!!!! 😄

    • HJ Madison
      05/05/2013 at 1:48 pm

      Usually, defendant needs to be around the court, in case the jury has a question. If the question requires a verbal answer (meaning it is not that they want to see a piece of evidence), the jury is brought back to open court for the answer and Jodi should be there. You know, now that you ask this, that may have been what JA and the Judge were talking about when JA approached the bench at the conclusion on Friday. JA should be “involved” with her lawyers regarding any questions, though she may have given permission for her lawyers to deal with questions outside her presence. Does this make sense?

      • CC ...
        05/05/2013 at 1:51 pm

        It does make sense, except for the part where she may have given permission to her lawyers … we all know she is “smarter” than anyone else. Pffffft.

      • HJ Madison
        05/05/2013 at 2:01 pm

        Oh crap! I always forget that part CC.. how could I be SOOO stupid! The brilliant Jodistein has answers to ALL the questions. Puke!

  197. 05/05/2013 at 1:43 pm

    oh yeah.. i reckon stupid Nurm shot himself in the foot re the photos too.. if ANYONE on that jury is thinking .. maybe she took these timed.. him pointing out she didn’t look that happy could well be explained by her trying to get into postion before the timer went off.

  198. Family of Law
    05/05/2013 at 1:45 pm

    Syntara :
    I have a question on this that I forgot to post actually.
    If the jury want the testimony about this.. to actually clarify what she said.. are they able to request either the video or the transcript of it?
    …AND does anyone here know when it was she said it.. obviously some time when she was on the stand that much I know but theres a lotta days of that crap!

    I’m not sure about Arizona law, but in Illinois a jury can ask for written transcripts, and it at the judges discretion to grant or deny. I may be wrong, but I thought judge Stevens said the jury can ask for any testimony or evidence to be clarified, but it must be a formal n request submitted to her.
    Here’s a video montage of the Wallmart/ gas can testimony with JA on the stand.

    • 05/05/2013 at 1:47 pm

      ooo goodie tyvm FOL!!!

    • 05/05/2013 at 2:04 pm

      waaa it cuts off her would it surprise you? answer

      What a fark up by Nurm this whole clip shows.. the bullshite that she tried to pull that it wasn’t salinas… lol that was her scribbling notes the other day.. I said let her cos if they listen to her they are gonna be sorry… well ya der obviously they couldn’t even remember her testimony either!! What fools! This could well be her undoing when jurors are asked what was the turning point for you.


      The Nurm tries to coach her near the end there… when he says “objection there is no indication it was gas used” ie giving Jodi the hint to say it was something else.. ironically the Tesoro woman said only gas was sold at that time so even Nurm’s prompt was a major farkup! But this doesn’t show she followed up on his prompt anyhow.. but that’s not the point if she had it wouldn’t have been even worse for her!

  199. MMD
    05/05/2013 at 1:59 pm

    ok folks, I think I’m gonna try and have a nap so tomorrow will come sooner. Ya’ll behave yourselves now 😯

    • 05/05/2013 at 2:05 pm

      ciao MMD sleep well get refreshed!! ;D

  200. donchais
    05/05/2013 at 2:04 pm
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