Home > Crime > Martin MacNeil Murder Trial – Day 4

Martin MacNeil Murder Trial – Day 4


Hopefully we will get into some interesting testimony.  So far, this has been slow and lack-luster performances by the pros and def have made this hard to sit through!

Court resumes at 8:37 MT.  We start with a bench conference.

State calls Dr. Scott Van Wagoner.  ER doc who worked on Michele.

He lays out his CV.

He knew MacNeill through work.  They interacted regarding common patients.

He was notified by EMS they were bringing in Michele.  She was intubated in the field prior to arrival.  They suctioned her airway.

She had no pulse or blood pressure.  She was bluish.  She had lividity in her buttocks and back.  Lividity can occur as soon as 30 minutes.

He believes Michele was dead when she arrived at the ER.

Michele didn’t respond to any of the attempts they made.

He describes how CPR is done.

The way Michele was positioned in the tub would have made it not possible to perform CPR.

So MacNeill is so busted about that CPR he did!

He contacted the ME to determine the cause of death.

Did you see the defendant that day yes.  He was agitated and angry.  MacNeil was asking why Michele had the surgery.

MacNeill offered the doctor $10k to continue the resuscitation which the doctor found odd.

MacNeill told him that Michele passed out in the tub and he pulled her out and began CPR.


If you couldn’t lift someone out of the tub wouldn’t it be appropriate to do the best you can?  Yes.

You’re familiar with the Ambu bag?  Yes.

An Ambu bag if used incorrectly could fill the stomach with air and could lead to vomiting?  It could.

At the preliminary hearing you said you don’t know when you noticed the lividity?  Yes, I don’t know the time.

Based on his belief that Michele had a clot, he administered TPA to break the clot.

You said the incisions on Michele from surgery were gaping open?  They were split open, but I didn’t use the word gapping.

You drew blood and blood gases for the ME?  Yes.

You said MacNeill was odd and eccentric?  I always felt he was.

You didn’t notice any signs of rigor?  No.

You took Michele’s temperature?  Yes.

What was it? 35.7 C


When someone dies body temperature drops?  Yes

State calls Stephanie Hanson.  Nurse.

She works with Van Wagoner.

She helped with Michele.

She noticed Michele’s coloring was poor due to lack of circulation.

She says Michele felt cool to the touch.

She saw MacNeill in the ER.   He was agitated and upset.  He was saying why would she do this, I told her not to do this.


Do you remember the interview with investigators?  Yes.

She noticed lividity on Michele.

State calls Melissa Frost.  Utah State Developmental Center. Safety officer.

She knows MacNeill; they did some work together.

She identifies an aerial photo of the USDC campus and she marks the building where she worked.

They had safety fairs to lower workplace injuries.

MacNeill usually didn’t think they were important.

She remembered arriving 6am the morning of April 11 and worked until 2am.

She didn’t see MacNeill until just before the award ceremony at 11 or 11:15.  The award ceremony was scheduled for 11:45 but it had to be rescheduled.


Recess called for the jury.

Frost received 2 phone calls saying the award ceremony needed to be moved because MacNeill’s wife was sick.

There is argument back-and-forth about hearsay and the defense doesn’t want the part about Michele being sick brought in.

The jury will not hear that Michele was sick.

The award ceremony was rescheduled to the benefit of MacNeill.  Changing the time was frustrating to her.  She received a second call saying they were moving back to the original time.

She received a third call around 10:40 and was told they were doing the award right now.

MacNeill arrived shortly after 11 and received the award.  He hung around for about 15 minutes


You met with investigators?  Yes.

And attended the preliminary hearing?  Yes.

You said the award was scheduled for 11:45?  Correct.

Doug Whitney asked for an agenda?  I don’t recall that.

In that interview you told Doug Whitney the award was scheduled for 11:45?  I don’t recall.

She is given a copy of the interview to refresh her memory.

You said the award was typically between 11 and 12?  Yes.

This nit picking has to stop!                                         

 State calls Gayla Moore.

Wow, they just broke for lunch.

Gayla Moore back on the stand.  She worked at USDC.  Housekeeping supervisor.

She interacted with MacNeill.  Her office controlled medical supplies and they would clean MacNeill’s office.  They were friendly.

She saw him on the 11th.  MacNeill seemed to be anxious and in a hurry to get to the safety fair.

She heard later that day Michele had passed.  She spoke with MacNeill the Monday after Michele’s funeral.  She offers her condolences and he seemed fine and happy.


MacNeill typically wore a lab coat with writing on it?  Some times.

State calls David Laycock.  Human resources at the center.

He knows MacNeill from work.

Were you aware of MacNeill’s health problems?  Yes.

He told me of problems with his nervous system and cancer in his big toe cancer.

MacNeill said he went to a Mayo clinic about the cancer.

He saw MacNeill at the safety fair and MacNeill told him he needed his photo taken because he had got an award.  He was adamant about the picture.


Did you meet with investigators?  I did.

You saw MacNeill’s toe?  Yes it was swollen.

Was it the cancer fatal?  I don’t know.

State calls Guy Thompson.  Superintendant of the center.

He knows MacNeill.  They interacted daily.

He attended the health fair and he saw MacNeill there at 9, 9:30.

He saw him at the funeral and then interacted the following Monday.

MacNeill was looking for a room to rent for a female to rent while she was working on her nursing degree.

State calls Eileen Heng.  Girlfriend of MacNeill’s son.  She is the one MacNeill had dump the meds in the toilet.

Damion, the son, texted her and told her Michele had died.

She got to the house between 1 and 2pm.

MacNeill took them to the bedroom and asked her to retrieve the drugs. He and Damion counted the drugs.

She didn’t know what the drugs were.

MacNeill said Michele wasn’t taking the drugs and he wanted to know what was missing.

MacNiell was frustrated and asked her to flush the meds.  The pill bottles were thrown in the garbage.

Alexis arrived a few hours later after the pills were gone.

MacNeill told her there was blood every in the bathroom and said he believed Michele had fallen and hit her head.

She noticed contention between MacNeill and Alexis.

Court in recess.

Back on record.

Was a person named Jillian the reason for the discord?   Yes.

She helped interview the nannies.

MacNeill only had one nanny to interview.  Mac Neill hired her.

Alexis and Rachel weren’t part of the process.

She found out that MacNeill and Gypsy were involved in an intimate relationship.


You spent a lot of time at the MacNeill home?  Yes.

You arrived at the MaNeill home after the date and he very upset? Yes.

McNeill told you Michele had a top on but no pants?  Yes.

McNeill told you to go to the bathroom and retrieve the pills?  Yes.

Jury questions…

Did MacNeill tell you how he advertised for nanny position?  No.

Did you see blood in the bathroom?  No, the bedroom.

Court called for jury till 10:30, but court will be on at 8:30 MT.

  1. 10/24/2013 at 12:16 am

    Thank you for the recap Donchais! Didn’t have a whole lot of time to watch today so you always seem to bring me up to speed! Pretty docile trial…sigh!

  2. ritanita
    10/24/2013 at 7:53 am

    Good morning all! I’m up bright and early and eagerly awaiting the events for today. Will Ada be able to testify? From the way the judge has been speaking, I’m hoping so.

    While Alexis may not be able to tell all she knows, I’m sure she will have an earful for the jury to hear. I hope her cross goes in the civilized matter we’ve seen before. One thing I do want the jury to hear is how MM wanted to get rid of his 4 adopted younger daughters.

    That was among the coldest of facts in the case IMHO.

    • 10/24/2013 at 8:14 am

      Ditto ritanita, also want to hear the testimony of previous mistress Anna Osborne.

  3. Anonymous
    10/24/2013 at 10:42 am

    Morning all – slept around the clock. Finally we get to see the infamous Whitney!

  4. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 11:03 am

    Damn we’re back to cherry picking bits from here and there.

    I posted another long comment earlier- have no idea where the hell it went 🙄

    • dpforjodi
      10/24/2013 at 2:39 pm

      off into the ether with my emails

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 4:09 pm

        must have

  5. 10/24/2013 at 11:06 am

    Good morning if anyone’s around.

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 12:19 pm

      I am and glued to Alexis’ testimony. She is not looking at her father at all.

      • ritanita
        10/24/2013 at 6:14 pm

        She did an impressive job. If the judge allows Ada’s testimony in, it will be because of her.

  6. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 12:38 pm

    Mrs. DP – where are you?

    • 10/24/2013 at 12:40 pm

      Watching on whoop and fixing us lunch.

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 12:43 pm

        what’s for lunch and am I invited?

      • 10/24/2013 at 12:56 pm

        Beef barley soup – I’m bringing the sourdough and yes you are. I said I’d pick you up on the way.

  7. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 12:40 pm

    OK I’m confused as to Ada. Did Alexis at the beginning say that Ada was the biological daughter of one of her sisters that her parents adopted and that after her mother’s death she became Ada’s guardian (I believe she adopted her)?

    Can anyone enlighten me please?

    • 10/24/2013 at 12:59 pm

      I can’t – missed it, neighbour’s brake line failed – had to step out to diagnose the prob.

    • donchais
      10/24/2013 at 2:37 pm

      yup, sister Vanessa

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 3:17 pm

        Thanks donchais. I thought I heard something but then it got cleared up with Rachel.

  8. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 12:43 pm

    Wow, Alexis looks good. According to a tweet, she had twins 2 weeks ago. She has one full house.

  9. 10/24/2013 at 1:11 pm

    I’d like to take a bat to this sob for subjecting his kids to this.

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 1:28 pm

      ditto. I seriously thought she was going to pass out at one moment. This is PTSD the real kind, not what JA claims to have.

  10. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 2:28 pm

    What a dirt bag. I just want to give poor Rachel a hug and make everything all right.

    I cannot believe that the judge is not going to take a lunch break because Lord knows this poor girl needs it. I certainly hope that along with therapy that this testimony helps her heal somewhat. She appears to be reliving every single moment as if it happened yesterday and probably does every time she puts her head down on a pillow.

    Not only did she lose her mother, but her father, who she was closest to, turned out to be someone she couldn’t even imagine in her wildest dreams.

    • 10/24/2013 at 2:32 pm

      ditto – I’m at a loss for any other words.

    • donchais
      10/24/2013 at 2:39 pm

      Rachel is bipolar

      • Marilyn N
        10/24/2013 at 2:48 pm

        Is she really bipolar?

      • donchais
        10/24/2013 at 3:14 pm


      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 3:00 pm

        If it is managed with Lithium or some other meds, it can be totally unrecognizable to most people. This however, could cause a major episode.

  11. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 2:29 pm

    Since Miss Piggy was doing the objections she will be doing the cross. She’s going to have to walk a fine line not to completely alienate the jury.

    O/T Obviously Miss Piggy has read all the comments about how awful her hair has looked and thus the bun.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      10/24/2013 at 8:10 pm

      She still looks ugly…..and her face looks like she’s had work done…..bad work!

  12. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 2:31 pm

    Is anyone else here or am I in the sandbox by myself?

    • 10/24/2013 at 2:33 pm

      I’m here but incapable of adding anything.

    • nyccowgirl
      10/24/2013 at 2:37 pm

      are ya watching this? i’m at work and trying to find someone blogging it real time to follow. hlntv seems to have scrapped this format as of yesterday’s testimony.

    • dpforjodi
      10/24/2013 at 2:38 pm

      hi mmd beans

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 3:01 pm

        Hi darlin’

  13. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/24/2013 at 3:03 pm

    Good Morning All……boy this poor girl is a wreck and Miss Piggy is trying to take her apart even more! For crying out loud….these kids have lost their mother (MORE THAN LIKELY at the hands of their scumbag father, now know that their father chose a tramp over them, and the life they lived was a lie. Is it no wonder she’s disgusted having to relive all this again with Miss Piggy acting all holier than thou…..just like her client/defendent!! Not only that….she has her previous testimony right in front of her! Just give it to Rachel, ask your questions and she can see what she answered. What’s so hard about that!? Miss Piggy just thinks she’s all that….like she’s some big time lawyer!! Hah…..consider the type of clients she has and that will tell you what’s she’s all about!

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 3:08 pm

      MORE THAN LIKELY – how about definitely!!!!!!!

      I totally agree as to consider the type of clients Miss Piggy has – that speaks volumes!!!!!!! Her web page makes me want to vomit.

  14. nyccowgirl
    10/24/2013 at 3:13 pm

    did ya see this? Yay!

    Wild About Trial@WildAboutTrial

    No deal was made today in the #JodiArias hearing.

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 3:17 pm


    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 3:27 pm

      Just got this in a google alert. Partial comment

      “Donations are now being accepted for my appeals at http://www.Justice4Jodi.com,” Arias tweeted on Wednesday.

      Gimme a freaking break!!!!!!!!! Haven’t the taxpayers paid enough already. 🙄

      • nyccowgirl
        10/24/2013 at 3:33 pm

        I actually hope all her fans contribute. It’s their choice to waste their money and defrays the costs the taxpayers who don’t support her have to cover!

      • nyccowgirl
        10/24/2013 at 3:34 pm

        Having said that, there should be an accounting of her finances rather someone pocketing this and have the taxpayers pay either way. Prosecutors should use this as evidence and go after the trail.

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 4:07 pm

        This is just for her appeals. It doesn’t cover the retrial of the penalty phase or the work that Wurmi/Gidget are doing. If she gets the DP I know that she has an automatic appeal but don’t know if the state has to pay for that in AZ.

  15. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 3:28 pm

    I wonder’d how long it would take before he brought up her mental health. Totally uncalled for!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😦

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      10/24/2013 at 3:31 pm

      We think Miss Piggy is getting her all confused on purpose just so she could bring up her mental state. She’s trying to make her look like she has a mental problem and not to be believed! They’re all a bunch of pigs!!

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 3:36 pm

        I agree. She’s trying to turn her upside down and inside out. Disgusting.

      • 10/24/2013 at 3:36 pm

        Agreed. Does she really think they’re accomplishing anything with bullshit. I hope the jurors are as disgusted as we are and it comes back to bite the defense in the ass.

      • ritanita
        10/24/2013 at 6:19 pm

        The defense has been doing this with everyone. I have a special name for it, NITPICKERY. They attempt to impeach EVERY witness in this manner. It never really works. To impeach a witness, there has to be something of real value. Saying her mother was “recuperating” vs “being sick” is a nitpickery of no value. Oh, but she used the term “sick” way back when!

  16. Marilyn N
    10/24/2013 at 3:32 pm

    Sure glad I don’t write in a journal as they always seem to come into these trials –
    (not that I expect to be in a trial anytime soon)!

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 3:35 pm

      Me too. They always seem to get into the wrong hands.

  17. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 3:38 pm

    I can’t remember this morning. How the hell are people supposed to remember exact words from cherry picked conversations, especially after such a traumatic event???? 🙄

  18. 10/24/2013 at 3:42 pm

    What kind of black-hearted bastard would allow this to be done to his daughter?

    • nyccowgirl
      10/24/2013 at 3:54 pm

      The kind that wanted to get rid of 4 of them and abandoned 1 in Russia so that his gypsy could steal her identity…oh yeah, and the kind that kills his wife rather than get a simple divorce.

      • ByeByeJA
        10/24/2013 at 3:56 pm

        You beat me to it nycowgirl!!

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 3:58 pm

      This is why we need Syntara back to diagnose doctor of nothing.

  19. nyccowgirl
    10/24/2013 at 4:14 pm

    can someone explain why any of this financial crap matters? it is their daughter; of course, there would be money spent whether wife or he paid for it.

    • Marilyn N
      10/24/2013 at 4:16 pm

      Maybe they think it makes Martin look so good and generous to his children.

    • 10/24/2013 at 4:16 pm

      It doesn’t matter – they’re trying to make Rachel look crazy and a liar.

  20. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 4:26 pm

    Now this is getting nasty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/24/2013 at 4:27 pm

    How about that crack Miss Piggy said about Michelle not “working” so as to imply that the Axxhole she was married to paid for everything! Rachel was smart enough to catch that implication!! She see Miss Piggy straight!! Then Miss Piggy tried to back pedal but it was too late….she opened her fat assed mouth. We hope there’s women on that jury who are homemakers at home and caught wind of that comment Miss Piggy made!! Hell…..Michelle had 8 kids at home…..we bet Michelle earned more working at home than fat ass Miss Piggy did out in the workforce! Big Mouth!! Hope it comes back to bite her in her big fat ass!!

    • 10/24/2013 at 4:29 pm

      Let it all out – don’t stop now.

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 4:35 pm

      Tell us how ya really feel CCC? 😀 I agree with every word you ladies said!

  22. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 4:29 pm

    How the hell did her medical records get in??????? She’s not on trial!!!!!! Really, really cheap shot!!!!!!!!

    • 10/24/2013 at 4:30 pm

      My question exactly.

    • nyccowgirl
      10/24/2013 at 4:36 pm

      especially since i heard that she can’t mention that her mom said that her dad may kill her (or at least one of the daughters heard that). never did find out why this isn’t admissible.

      • MMD
        10/24/2013 at 4:56 pm

        I think it was Alexis but she said if anything happened to her to make sure it wasn’t their father. I don’t understand why it wasn’t admissible either.

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 4:41 pm

      I hope she walks straight out that door and into her therapist’s office. Miss Piggy really did a job on her, Nasty bitch!

      • ritanita
        10/24/2013 at 6:20 pm

        Reports are she rapidly exited the courtroom and the courthouse. Don’t blame her one bit.

  23. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/24/2013 at 4:38 pm

    MMD :Tell us how ya really feel CCC? I agree with every word you ladies said!

    Ha ha ha…..the old hen’s blood pressures are starting to get fired up! Boy…we’re pissed!!

  24. Marilyn N
    10/24/2013 at 4:39 pm

    Seems like defense wants to make the whole thing look like her imagination.
    Let the poor girl go!

  25. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/24/2013 at 4:39 pm

    OMG!! You frickin’ PIG!! What are these questions going to get you!!!

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      10/24/2013 at 4:40 pm

      The jury has got to be feeling for this girl…..come on judge…..what does this have to do with the murder!!

  26. essem58
    10/24/2013 at 5:00 pm

    Morning all, been watching this on and zzzz since about 4am. Feel so bad for Rachel hope she can get through this unlike her brother. Latest tweet from WAT bout JA
    @WildAboutTrial: Latest #JodiArias news is that she filed a motion to fire Kirk Nurmi as her attorney again. It never ends. I miss the chicken wings 😦
    Now who thinks another delay tactic? Nurmi’s lucky day

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 5:43 pm

      The judge will never allow that.

    • dpforjodi
      10/24/2013 at 9:52 pm

      love it I miss the chicken wings

  27. essem58
    10/24/2013 at 5:33 pm

    What about the seeds of deceit sown by MacNeill to Ada immediately at the scene?

    • MMD
      10/24/2013 at 5:44 pm

      The best point essem and better than anything either side has so far pointed out.

  28. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 5:41 pm

    OMG finally a smile from the judge. I totally thought he was incapable of facial expression. I think he really knows his stuff though and is very thorough.

  29. essem58
    10/24/2013 at 5:57 pm

    The best thing I heard from the judge was when Miss Piggy said “May we approach” standing up ready to pounce and he said “No you may not”. At least he does have control. Off to work now.

  30. MMD
    10/24/2013 at 6:12 pm

    Packing it in folks. I truly need a break from this trial. This was a tough day.

    Thanks donchais for all you do. Ritanita as well. See ya all tomorrow.

  31. ritanita
    10/24/2013 at 6:36 pm

    I’m totally worn out! Watching Rachel turned me into a nervous wreck. Her anxiety moved right over into me and I had to take a chill pill! Da truf!

    Check for today’s post tomorrow, I have a feeling Donchais is worn out too!

    Kudos to Rachel MacNeill. I think Ms. Piggy thought she was prime fodder for her nitpickery. Didn’t work! As for the mental illness stuff, you don’t get a medical diagnosis for bi-polar and/or hallucinations and delusions at the ER. They probably sedated her and made their best guess.

    HOWEVER, that was in 2012! That was 5 years after the event.

  32. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/24/2013 at 8:22 pm

    Well we give big credits to Rachel today. If that Miss Piggy thinks she made points with the jury with her sarcastic questions and bringing up her bi-polar, well think again fat ass! Rachel stood her ground even though she was brought to tears a few times. She tried to make Rachel out to be crazy but our gut feelings tell us that the jury felt for Rachel. Today caused us soooo much stress! That’s why we took the long break from JA the psycho only to come across another self centered psycho. Geeeezzzzz……it there a garden somewhere where these people are growing like weeds?!!

    We need justice and we need it now for the MacNeill Daughters and the Alexanders!!

    • dpforjodi
      10/24/2013 at 9:57 pm

      CCC, yes and check this out
      hope it works

      • dpforjodi
        10/24/2013 at 10:05 pm

        dp yells to kid outside hey get back here

      • Marilyn N
        10/25/2013 at 12:41 am

        Thanks dp! I read every bit of it. They better lock this guy away forever!!!

      • 10/25/2013 at 1:56 am

        Wholly cow, what a piece of work! Hope this guy gets locked away forever…he is a danger!

  33. dpforjodi
    10/24/2013 at 10:07 pm

    delightful child xtra treats for him

  34. essem58
    10/25/2013 at 5:16 am

    Poor Jodi, Nurmi doesn’t like her. Newsflash, NO-ONE DOES!! JA’s letter to Judge Sherry setting why she wants Nurmi off. This is worse than watching that ALV vid, it’s 12 bloody pages!!! Boo hoo. http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/jodi-arias-nurmi-motion.pdf

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