Home > Crime > Martin MacNeill Murder Trial – Day 5

Martin MacNeill Murder Trial – Day 5


Now that they started mixing up the witnesses, we had a more interesting day.  Today young Ada will be in court so Judge Pullan can decide whether or not she can testify.  I can only imagine how hard this will be for the 12 year-old!

State calls Doug Witney.  Case investigator.

He was given the case to review by Jeff Robinson.

He came into contact with Alexis Somers who provided him a lot of information.

Ada is the daughter of Vanessa and adopted by the MacNeills’.

Ada was interviewed by Patty Johnston because she was the one who found her mom in tub.

Did you ever interview Ada?  No.

Did Jeff Robinson?  No.

They were hoping to get more information from Ada than what they learned in the original interview.

As time passed Ada told Alexis more and more about what she had seen in the bathroom.

Did you ever tell Alexis we need Ada to say this?  Absolutely not.


You shared your theories with Alexis?  They changed weekly.

You showed Alexis your investigative summary?  Yes.

Witney is given a copy of an email and he says it was sent by Rachel.  She said Ada told her some things she remembered.  Rachel said MacNeill rearranged Michele’s body.

Ada said mom was in black and blue pants and a black shirt…Alexis said she thought it was Michele’s running suit.

Another email from Alexis where she says she has a concern about questioning Ada any further.

Email from Alexis to you about what additional information you needed from Ada?  If I responded, my email would be attached.

Spencer keeps alluding to Witney not providing all the info in discovery, however Witney was no longer working in the office at that time and wasn’t part of discovery.

You told Alexis to talk to Ada again?  Yes, I wanted to know how close Ada got to the tub in order to know what she saw.

Judge asks Witney how many times he asked Alexis to follow-up with Ada.  I believe a couple times.

Jeff Robinson is called.  He worked with Witney doing interviews.

Did you interview Ada?  I did not.

Did you communicate with Alexis about this case?  Yes.

Did you ask Alexis to ask specific questions of Ada?  Yes, he wanted to know where Ada was in the bath and how much water was in the tub.


In the interview Alexis was asked to get more information from Ada.  Yes.

You followed up with Alexis?  Yes, I asked for a diagram from Ada as to how she saw her mother in the tub.

Apparently several question were asked of Alexis and a bunch of these emails are nothing more than follow-up while he was waiting for response.  This is splitting hairs.

You emailed Doug Witney that the more information we get from Alexis, the more conflicting information we get and that concerns me.  Yes, I wrote that.

A lot of the investigative info was released to the media?  Yes.

And numerous media outlets have covered this case?  Yes.

Screen shot 2013-10-24 at 11.54.32 AMAlexis Somers called.

She is Ada’s legal guardian.

Are you aware of an interview she gave at the Children’s Justice Center?  Yes, she was 7 at the time.

Have you ever talked to Ada about April 11?  Yes, over the years she’s brought things up.

Did you avoid suggesting answers?  Yes.

Did Witney and Robinson ask you specific questions about the case?  Yes.

She is aware of the media interest in the story.

Did you take any measures to shield Ada from the media?  Yes, I never allowed her to see any of it.

Did you ever tell Ada that you thought your father killed your mother?  No, I never told her.


Do you recall the preliminary hearing?  Yes.

Do you recall anything Ada said prior to the 2009 interview with Ada?  Not that I remember.

We’re back on nit picking the pile of emails again, going line-by-line…acckkk.  As you can tell, I stopped typing most of this crap!

Jury brought in finally at 11:05 MT.

State calls Rachel MacNeill.Screen shot 2013-10-24 at 1.08.45 PM

She identifies her father.  She’s starting to cry.

She identifies a picture of her mom.

Growing up she was very close to her father.

She was very close to her mom.

She is really struggling with emotions here.

She recalls April 11 clearly.

Do you remember hearing your mom died?  Yes.

She had several calls from her father in which he said to get to the hospital; it’s your mother, quick.

She got to the family home and went to her father.  Alexis was there.

MacNeill took her to the bathroom to explain what happened to her mother.  MacNeill was adamant to describe what happened.

MacNeill physically showed step by step what happened and said Ada was ruined.

OMG, MacNeill said Ada is ruined!!!

She steps down to approach the tub and halts.

Rachel is very emotional that they take a few minute break.

Did your dad make any comments about a police investigation?  Yes.

My father was very concerned about getting an autopsy down right away.  He wanted it down because he was concerned there would be an investigation because he didn’t want anyone to think he had anything to do with he mother.

She found her mother’s hospital bed in the garage as well as all her mom’s belongings including her mom’s dark blue running suits.  This was the night of the 11th.

Her father told her they needed to hire a nanny.  She told her father she quit her job, she could take care of them.  Her father said don’t you dare quit.

The Tuesday after the funeral her father insisted she go to the LDS temple to pray about the nanny.

As they were outside the temple a woman walked up to offer condolences…it was Gypsy!

She identifies a picture of Gypsy.  Says she was at the funeral.  And again when her father moved her into the house about a few weeks after Michele died.

As a nanny she did nothing relating to the children, cooking or cleaning.

She knew fairly quickly that Gypsy and her father were having an affair.

Interesting, when Rachel starts to calm and focus, the def keeps jumping up with objections to unsettle her.

They had a meeting about the will and MacNeill gave her, Alexis and Damien $5k each which was very weird to her.

Back to the tub.  Rachel describes how her father said her mom was slumped over the tub with her head in the tub and underwater.  Her father also told her mother only had her top garment on and nothing else and kept talking about having an autopsy done.

Again, she becomes unglued.

Witness passed.

Def asks for lunch break, jury says they want to continue so the take a 10-minute break instead.


You never told anyone about your dad joking about being single before?  I don’t recall.

In the garage did you see the hospital bed there?  Yes.

At the family Easter dinner your mom didn’t participate?  She was sick and in bed.

Well hell, MacNeill was od’ing her!

When you saw your dad he was depressed and crying?  Yes.

You did a demonstration at the tub?  Yes.

You said your mom’s feet were sticking out of the tub?  Yes.

Defense is being horribly cruel here.

You said everything was a bloody mess, but you told Witney there were wet towels and some blood?  I’m not good with blood, it upsets me.

You were concerned with your other siblings seeing what was in the garage?  Yes.

You stated your dad wanted to get the autopsy done?  Yes.

This is crossing the line and we’re back to nit-picking again.

OMG, my head is going to explode!

Holy cow!  Def is going to introduce Rachel’s bipolar disorder.  What an ambush and so disgusting!!!!  Talk about victimizing the victim!

After your mother’s death you lived with Alexis?  Yes.

June 3rd 2007 you sent an email to Alexis about questions?  Yes.

You wrote something is very wrong.  Something is very wrong with the nanny.  We should hire an investigator.  What is her full name?  Jillian or Gypsy?  Why was she at the temple and why did dad pretend not to now here?

Yes, those are all thoughts I’ve had.

After reading through the email, this is an email you wrote and is not a fake?  Yes.

You’ve been diagnosed with a mental illness?  Yes.

You’ve had delusions and psychosis?  No.

You used a doctor named Jeffery Hanson? I don’t know that name.

Gustin is impeaching Rachel with her medical records.

You were very anxious?  Yes.

You told the doctor about your mental state?  I don’t recall.

You’ve been diagnosed bipolar.


When your father acted out how your mother was found, who was there?  Alexis.

Do you know if other people were aware of the decorative towels and stuffed animals were missing?  Yes.

When Gypsy moved in who else was there?  The whole family.

Jury questions…

Did MacNeill describe turning you mother’s body over?  I don’t remember.

Did MacNeill tell you any concerns about what the autopsy would find?  I don’t remember.

What torture for Rachel!

I’m exhausted and need to rest, so I’m out of here.

  1. 10/25/2013 at 6:50 am

    Thanks you Donchais for the excellent summary. It was very difficult to watch the nasty and condescending tactics used by the defense to provoke Rachel.

    • donchais
      10/25/2013 at 7:16 am

      It totally wore me out!

      • ritanita
        10/25/2013 at 9:29 am

        Me too! But I am looking forward to today’s testimony. Let’s hope Ada gets to testify. After the way the defense treated Rachel, I’m sure they will mess up with her as well, sending the jurors’ minds to sympathy and understanding over mini-itty-bitty attempts to impeach.

  2. 10/25/2013 at 8:46 am

    For those who may have missed it I urge everyone to go back to yesterday’s page and click on essem’s link to read stabby’s new motion to have Nurmi dismissed from her case. More fascinating insight, not that we needed it, into the mind of a psycho.

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 10:04 am

      I already did. She is truly a loon although I lol at her quote about Wurmi’s “poverty of people skills”.

      • RJJS
        10/25/2013 at 2:28 pm

        After reading that I am actually starting to like Wurmi. At least he has the common sense to distance himself from the psyco. Don’t you love the Whaa Whaa, he hasn’t seen me in 5 months, even though she admits he has tried and she has refused to see him? And she makes sure to throw in shots about the pedo stuff and says all the prosecution witnesses are lying.

  3. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 10:10 am

    Morning all and thank you donchais for your recap. I think that yesterday was hard for anyone to watch. Miss Piggy is a total disgrace and majorly overstepped that fine line she had to walk.

    Apart from having their family implode after just losing their mother, putting Rachel through that was unconscionable. There is probably not a person in that jury who either doesn’t have a family member or know of someone whose life has been touched by mental illness, so hopefully they will realize what a low blow attempting to bring in her medical history was. Totally disgraceful!!!!!!!

  4. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 10:17 am

    I would still like to know how Rachel’s private medical records were admitted. She is not on trial. Are they going to admit the records of every other person involved in this trial, especially Martin, who has had some mental health issues himself? He at least is fair game.

    • 10/25/2013 at 10:29 am

      C’mon MMD, you know better than that – the defendant’s “rights” have to be protected.

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 10:38 am

        I know. Makes me sick! WordPress definitely needs a hurl bucket!!!!!!!

    • Marilyn N
      10/25/2013 at 10:34 am

      And the fact that Rachel was twice married with weddings paid for by Mr Fraud.
      Not sure what that is suppose to prove, but I believe the defense tactic backfired big time.

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 11:06 am

        Wrote you a long reply but it’s lost in cyberspace 😯

    • 10/25/2013 at 10:49 am

      Also, I agree with the point ritanita made last night, these records were the result of a visit to the ER where she was “diagnosed” by some guy she had never met before. It is disgraceful the def. was allowed to use them.

      • ritanita
        10/25/2013 at 11:12 am

        Once, in an initial meeting with a shrink, she asked if I was bi-polar. I told her I wasn’t, was taking Welbutrin prescribed by previous doc. I told her it wound me up and gave me energy. It turned out I just have some major anxiety stuff going down and I got the proper meds for it.

        Rachel may have had the same situation, but hasn’t been given the correct meds.

  5. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 11:08 am

    Not at all happy with this ruling about Ada!

  6. ritanita
    10/25/2013 at 11:10 am

    Well, the judge just made a ruling. They can show the Justice Center interview, Ada will then come in a undergo cross and potentially re-direct. I don’t particularly like the decision, but I have a great deal of respect for how thought out the decision was. After that, LE really messed it all up by having Alexis do their work for them.

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 11:13 am

      I agree about the judge ritanita. He seems to be completely on top of everything and can repeat sentences back verbatim so he is always paying close attention.

  7. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 11:15 am

    Where is the court reporter in this case or are they using electronic means to make the record??? First time I haven’t seen a court reporter, there only appears to be a clerk.

    • ritanita
      10/25/2013 at 11:28 am

      Nor has a court reporter been mentioned. Could be there, but we can’t see? Sometimes I do hear clicking sounds like a computer, but it could be media if they are allowed computers.

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 12:39 pm

        I think there are quite a few people there blogging from the media and even when they pan the camera around, haven’t seen a court reporter and it’s a small courtroom. The judge does do quite of bit of typing on his computer.

        Really odd……………………………………

  8. 10/25/2013 at 11:32 am

    I’ve had my own experiences with various mental health professionals who were quick to offer incorrect opinions and toss useless meds at me.
    ritanita :
    Once, in an initial meeting with a shrink, she asked if I was bi-polar. I told her I wasn’t, was taking Welbutrin prescribed by previous doc. I told her it wound me up and gave me energy. It turned out I just have some major anxiety stuff going down and I got the proper meds for it.
    Rachel may have had the same situation, but hasn’t been given the correct meds.

    • 10/25/2013 at 11:33 am

      oops, hopefully, I’ll figure out how to do this one day.

      • ritanita
        10/25/2013 at 11:43 am

        LOL! My red beans are soaking for tonight’s chili!

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 12:11 pm

      The problem with some of these shrinks is that you get 3 of them and you will get 3 different diagnosis and meds.

      If you are fortunate enough to get correctly diagnosed, then sometimes it’s like playing dart trying to find what works for a person and everyone is different. Then once you find what does work, after a while it stops and ya have to start all over again. Total crapshoot.

      • ritanita
        10/25/2013 at 12:18 pm

        So right! I was lucky and the doctors I saw believed me when I explained my anxiety disorder. I controlled it by pure will-power most of my life. Then, it went way out of whack! But it took 8 years to find the right meds. And a few more waiting for the invention of the proper meds that don’t stop working!

  9. 10/25/2013 at 12:22 pm

    Is this some seriously momentum killing testimony or am I missing something?

    • ritanita
      10/25/2013 at 12:25 pm

      If I don’t hear the name Michele MacNeill soon, I’m crying uncle!

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 12:33 pm

        ditto to both or you. I have it on in the background as I’m trying to find bulk duck food for Mrs. DP. Lots of dog and cat food with duck IN it, not so much food for the ducks. 🙄

  10. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 12:25 pm

    OK – we got it – move on!

  11. 10/25/2013 at 12:40 pm

    MMD re: the duck food. If you find any do you suppose that means there’ll be dogs and cats in it?

    • dpforjodi
      10/25/2013 at 12:55 pm

      thanks MMD got 100kg of duck food coming on the taxi(really just a bus from St Johns $50
      purolator wanted $260
      God love a duck
      cant have a riot on my hand

      • 10/25/2013 at 12:56 pm

        I’ve seen thug ducks running amok before and it’s not pretty.

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 12:59 pm

        how long will that last?

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 12:58 pm

      I don’t think it works that way Beans 😉

      • 10/25/2013 at 1:04 pm

        It’s an unfair world.

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 1:07 pm

        Yes it is, especially for people who have been murdered.

  12. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 12:57 pm

    Finally he mentions Michele MacNeill!

  13. dpforjodi
    10/25/2013 at 1:02 pm

    3 month maybe
    do you remember the Watts riots? I know MMD you were in diapers then

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 1:07 pm

      still am 🙄 (just kidding folks)

      • 10/25/2013 at 1:08 pm

        Thanks for the yuks, much needed after yesterday.

      • dpforjodi
        10/25/2013 at 3:50 pm

        lol rim shot badda bing

  14. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 1:18 pm

    Anybody who was not affected by yesterday and Rachel’s testimony is lacking a soul.

    Is anyone having problems with WordPress besides me?

    • ritanita
      10/25/2013 at 1:29 pm

      No problem here.

  15. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 1:48 pm

    This is really getting tiring. After the MJ/Murry trial, Anna Nicole Smith, numerous other trials plus my own knowledge, I swear I could get up there and be as boring as this guy instead of listening and being paid squat! just saying……………………….

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 1:50 pm

      I’m sure that a lot of you trial watchers could do the same as well.

  16. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/25/2013 at 1:52 pm

    Sit down Howdy Doody! It was already boring before he got up and now it’s worse!

  17. 10/25/2013 at 1:53 pm

    Seems like Bob is getting his ass handed to him.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      10/25/2013 at 1:56 pm

      Got a laugh out of us when the ol’ Doc contradicted him that it was not research Howdy Doody was referring to! Hah….!!

      • 10/25/2013 at 2:00 pm

        ‘it’s anecdotal’ got a snort from me too.

      • ritanita
        10/25/2013 at 2:06 pm

        High point of the morning. I want more such in the afternoon. Pleeezzzzeee!

  18. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 2:16 pm

    Is this guy going to take the entire day???

  19. Ci Ci's Circle
    10/25/2013 at 2:18 pm

    We wondered if Howdy Doody consulted with his “doctor” client about some of this “research” he was referring to???? We decided he probably did which explains why he “got his ass handed to him” (Bean’s reference) a few minutes ago!! Ha ha ha….!!

  20. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 2:19 pm

    Thank God! I bet we won’t get to Gypsy at all today and we’ll have to wait until Tuesday!

    • 10/25/2013 at 2:24 pm

      I’d just decided that too so I’m packin’ it in for the day. See you all later.

      • MMD
        10/25/2013 at 2:27 pm

        See ya later Beans. Be good!!! 😀

      • dpforjodi
        10/25/2013 at 3:53 pm

        bye beans sorry i missed you

  21. cathyn518
    10/25/2013 at 2:51 pm

    Bipolar Disorder is the diagnosis du jour.It is a very common diagnosis for those presenting with depression along with mania/anxiety. Hallucinations and psychosis are not commonly associated with BPO. Rachael seemed distraught (understandably) but she did not seem to me to be confused or unclear in her testimony.

  22. 10/25/2013 at 3:01 pm

    MMD – I read that the trial is being video-taped and transcribed. Hope I’m right on this. The major clicking is the Judge on his keyboard.

    These lawyers have to start moving their Q’s.. Hopefully, the doc is not long on defense??? They need to get the jury back on track. Gypsy is still, supposedly, on this afternoon – she’s in the courthouse.

    Rachel’s testimony was so painful to watch – what a sick monster to put this entire family through hell. His time will come . . .

    JA is some piece of work. Imagine trying to get a new lawyer up to speed – don’t see that happening, but you never now.

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 4:03 pm

      Oh that’s good to know Jessi. It was bugging me.

      I hope we get to see Gypsy. There’s only an hour left.

      I totally agree with you about Martin. He AND his defense team, are complete monsters.

      I don’t see her getting a new attorney, not after all the times he’s tried to quit and not been allowed to.

  23. 10/25/2013 at 3:34 pm

    Oops – never know!

  24. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 4:21 pm

    I hope that they fit in Gypsy for at least a little while so that jury can go home thinking about what she said.

  25. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 4:30 pm

    Oh Goody. I want to see what he did all this for!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  26. essem58
    10/25/2013 at 4:31 pm

    Gypsy’s up!!

    • dpforjodi
      10/26/2013 at 12:07 pm

      everyone you tube David Rose The Stripper Theme, could not find kid.

  27. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 4:31 pm

    Wow I am surprised that could come in.

  28. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 4:32 pm

    Oops – Martin better get her a face lift appointment!

  29. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 4:33 pm

    Oh brother! They met online!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 4:40 pm

    SHe just gave Mr Fraud a smile. Did ya see that?

    • essem58
      10/25/2013 at 4:48 pm

      Yes !! Not sure if it was “you’re cooked” or “I’ll look after you”

  31. ritanita
    10/25/2013 at 4:40 pm

    Paying her rent, traveling with her, helping with her expenses… not so casual to me!

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 5:12 pm

      nor to her, although she won’t admit it.

  32. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 4:43 pm

    Bob acts like he thinks he is a cute little boy.

    • dpforjodi
      10/26/2013 at 12:09 pm


  33. MMD
    10/25/2013 at 4:53 pm

    What a cocky bitch. She’s proud of herself.

    • Marilyn N
      10/25/2013 at 5:00 pm

      I was just writing the same thing!

    • dpforjodi
      10/26/2013 at 12:12 pm

      daaaaaaaa dedadeda bum da bum daaaaaaaaaa dedadeda bum da bum

  34. Marilyn N
    10/25/2013 at 5:02 pm

    Well you don’t look dressed very appropriate for court today.

  35. essem58
    10/25/2013 at 5:10 pm

    They can recover those texts can’t they? She can be smug now but once those texts are entered its over red rover!

    • MMD
      10/25/2013 at 5:13 pm

      I hope that they get into the texts and read them. If they do, that’s what will sink him for sure!

      • Marilyn N
        10/25/2013 at 5:15 pm

        She was an actress 100%, totally playing like she had no idea what was going on and it was sooooo long ago she just can’t remember. Urrrrrrggggggg!!!!

    • ritanita
      10/25/2013 at 7:19 pm

      From past trials, I’ve learned that texts are not saved for a long time. I think AT&T doesn’t save them at all. By the time the investigation got underway it was too late.

      IMHO, LE botched this case from the moment they assumed it was an accidental death or a heart attack, or something and didn’t treat the house as a crime scene.

  36. dpforjodi
    10/26/2013 at 12:18 pm

    Did GGGGypsy (that is triple G Gypsy) break up with the other guy because he was married and had 10 kids which would be inappropriate to go out with skeletor because he only had 8 kids.

  37. dpforjodi
    10/26/2013 at 12:22 pm

    Oy, and oink to you Miss Piggy

  1. No trackbacks yet.
Comments are closed.
%d bloggers like this: