Home > Crime > Martin MacNeill Murder Trial – Day 10

Martin MacNeill Murder Trial – Day 10

11/01/2013

Well, yesterday was pretty much a bust.  We had to suffer through more of Spencer’s nitpicking over Alexis’ statements.  All in all, Spencer scored no points.  Then we had the testimony of Dr. Grey, ME.Again, that yielded pretty much nothing.  Pretty much a lost day.

Well, I just got a call from Donchais and her power is out!  ME’s are not my favorite to report on, I will do my best to keep you up on what happened until she gets her power back.  ritanita

Court convened at 10:36.  Dr. David Cragun was called to the stand.  He is an interventional cardiologist. He’s been practicing for 6 years.  He is an expert in clinical cardiology and is an active practitioner treating and managing patients.

He reviewed the medical reports from the case as well as the autopsy findings.

Jared Perkins asked how he went about his evaluation.  He said that he went through all the reports because he didn’t have a patient to examine.  Dr. Cragun went on to give examples of his background in doing such consultations.

First, Perkins asked about the risks of the drugs used on Michele if she had myocarditis.  He said that the dosage and combination of medications would cause a wide range of effects.  As an answer, we went into a lot of medical discussion I will not report here.

He said she had a mild case of myocarditis.  Most cases don’t rise to the level of medical detection.  The degree of findings by Dr. Fricke did not suggest she should have had a fatal event.

According to Dr. Thompson, none of the family had noted any symptoms of myocarditis.  Cragun said that her “course would be benign” and a fatal event would be rare.

In checking the blood work, it was very normal.  The BNP was in the low normal range.  It would have been higher in a serious case.

Due to lack of oxygen, the liver was more damaged than the heart.

In sum, he said that the myocarditis was not likely to have caused her death.

Then, they moved on to the EKG’s.  They two looked normal with no changes to indicate any disease.

Cragun also said her QTC’s were a bit long, but can change frequently.

Hypertension is a “silent killer” according to the doctor.

Now, we got back to the original question.  Cragun reeled off the list of drugs we’ve heard so often.

Spencer objects, overruled.

Promethezine (sp?) can prolong the time it takes the heart to charge.  The other drugs would not do that.

Cragun said he can’t say if the drugs affected her traumatically because it’s not his field of expertise.

Spencer on cross now.

He asked if he would be comfortable administering Promethezine to a patient in Michele’s explanation and the doctor replied “no.”

Spences was done!

No jury questions.

Next, the State called Dr. Perper.

Woo-hoo!  Donchais is back live for the highly esteemed Dr. Perper.  His CV is awesome compared to the Utah ME.

State calls Dr. Joshua Perper, ME. Now retired.

We are hearing his CV and it’s quite impressive.

He was sent Michele’s autopsy info and was asked to review.

He looked at the autopsy slides to see if there was disease.  He looked at the heart, lung, kidney, and liver.  The same as Fricke and Grey.

He also looked at the blood and toxicology.

His opinion is that the cause of death is Michele died from drowning and the drugs she had on board contributed.

Dr. Fricke said heart disease.  Grey said myocarditis.

Perper identifies photos of the slides of the tissues and they are published for the jury.

He identifies some focal myocardial scaring, but acute inflammatory nuclei.  He found no evidence of myocarditis!

You indicate the cause of death was drowning?  Yes.

Just because you’re found in water doesn’t mean drowning.

Michele was in the water long enough to ingest large amounts of water.

During resuscitation Michele expelled about 1/2 gal of water.

Recess.

After objections on testimony about Michele’s 3 blood samples by the defense because it was not given to the defense in a timely manner. Judge Pullan rules Dr. Perper may testify as it was addressed in the prelim hearing.

You lose Spencer!

He looked at labs from 2003, March 2007, and the day of death.  The April 11, 2007 report showed a significant dilution of the blood composition.  So the amount of drugs would be diluted also.

The lungs were found to be overloaded by weight…fluid in the airways.

Boy, the Utah MEs really screwed up!

He could not say the manner of death, but he said it was undetermined, but suspicious.

Lunch.

Cross of Perper…

Spencer shows Perper the lab report of Michele.

The pros asked you to exam the reports?   Yes.

You appear on the Nancy Grace show?  Yes.

At that time in 2010, you did have the case file?  Correct.

But, you said your believed there were discrepancies.  Yes.

You told her the Utah Me was wrong?  I don’t see it.

OMG!  Spencer gave him an incomplete report!

Danger Will Robinson, Goofy alert!

Spencer getting nasty with the good doctor.

How much have you been paid?  Somewhere between 10 and 14 thousand.

The drugs were not the cause of death?  Correct.

Spencer is stretching here, but doesn’t have the medical background/knowledge to do so.

Spencer is reaching and spinning big time.

Quite the little medical/scientific expert Spencer considers himself!

The jury has to be bleeding from eyes, ears, and noses by now! As am I!!!

Goofy was so disrespectful.

Redirect…

Perper says body temp after death is affected by a number of variables.  Drug use, if in water, the temp of the water…etc.

Did paramedics deny seeing lividity on Michele?  I don’t know.  It was noticed in the ER.

A dead person doesn’t vomit unless chest compressions are being performed.

The early ones weren’t being performed correctly!

Reasonably and with certainty, I believe Michele drowned.

Jury questions…

Would the use of CNS depressant raise or lower body temp?  It would depend.

Tuesday is election day so we’ll start at 10 am to give folks time to vote.

Thanks again ritanita for stepping in!

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  1. donchais
    11/01/2013 at 6:12 pm

    OK, here’s the deal…seems most of you have lost interest and that’s fine. However, if that’s the case, I need to know so I’m not locked at the computer for 9-10 hours, prepping, reviewing, and reporting. I can easily follow the trial without reporting which is certainly less labor intensive. I’ll make the ultimate decision, but pretty much feels like I may be wasting a lot of time.

    • 11/01/2013 at 6:28 pm

      I haven’t lost interest donchais, had to miss a day to take my aunt to a diabetes clinic in another town – have spent the last 4 hours catching up with all the testimony I missed – appreciate all you and ritanita do. I know how difficult it is to do what you do and I support you no matter what you decide from here on out.

    • 11/01/2013 at 9:27 pm

      I still read about the trials on your site –I just don’t comment.. thanks for all your hard work…

    • Anonymous
      11/02/2013 at 12:47 pm

      Your doing a great job explaining main points made during cross examination! It’s not a waste of your time, it’s much appreciated! Keep up the good work! Smiley was so disrespectful to the doctor on Friday! I agree the Jury must be so board! Half the time you have No idea WHAT point Smiley is trying to make! He deludes himself thinking he’s pointed out some huge revelation in the doctor’s testimony scoring the defense a point when really he has not and continues to make an ass of himself with his smug & condescending questions & tone! SHUT UP and take a seat is my advice to him! No one wants to hear you half-ass medical (mis) interpretation!

      • 11/02/2013 at 2:12 pm

        totally agree with your assessment Anon.

  2. ByeByeJA
    11/01/2013 at 6:26 pm

    I don’t respond much donchais, but I do certainly appreciate the blog and read it. It is just really, really hard to listen to this testimony — the defense is harder to listen to than Wurmi. Thank you for taking the time.

  3. NancyB
    11/01/2013 at 6:50 pm

    Donchais – I have only gained interest in this case. And that’s due to your detailed daily posts. For this trial I am not able to watch every moment of the testimony and without your coverage I would have little to no chance to so deeply understand and on many levels, just how evil and guilty this psychopath is. That goes for Gypsy as well, even though she was never charged with murder. It’s a lot of your time and energy to devote to not just following the trial yourself but creating the daily in depth blogs of your coverage. If you decide to limit posting, I will truly understand but will miss your posts sooo much.

    MMD, that article that you posted the other day, just thoroughly blew my mind! I had no idea about the numerous and significant facts from his past that just scream sociopath – and there are so many. Unbelievable that he collected full disability and SS.

    I’m disappointed in the Utah Board of Medicine and Board of Nursing laws. In most states if you have committed crimes that rise to the level of revocation of licensure then that’s the end of it, but not in UT, Gypsy can re-apply in 4 yrs and MacNeill in 10 yrs. That doesn’t mean that either Board will grant their applications but it just seems to me that neither of these low lifes should ever even have the chance at practicing again. Why didn’t UT just suspend their licenses if they give so many chances to people who have committed multiple felonies and that involved so many victims. These types of leopards don’t change their spots.

  4. 11/01/2013 at 7:01 pm

    Hi Donchais please continue. As it’s a 1am start for me to watch I often fall asleep so your recaps are invaluable. Found this pic which depicts the days cross. Hope the link works ok

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/01/2013 at 7:37 pm

      Yup….that’s how bad it got!! As we were flipping through the Twitter comments most everyone was making comments about his rudeness and disrespect!

  5. 11/01/2013 at 7:28 pm

    And kudos to Ritanita for backing you up !

  6. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/01/2013 at 7:34 pm

    We appreciate your hard work Donchais and this is where we come to see what’s going on with these cases as we are not internet savvy to go look on our own. We posted all morning as we watched the trial in agony we must say. We almost logged out when that Donkey Face was being so rude and disrespectful to Dr. Perper. Just because he couldn’t get the better of him he decided to take the low road and just dump on him. We thought of checking out and coming back later to read your re-cap. We will miss your postings if you prefer to ease out of it as we know it’s a lot of work to have to recap such long and boring testimony. It can be a real snore sometimes! We will truly understand if you wish to move on. No problem with us….but we will definitely have a void in our day!

  7. 11/01/2013 at 7:39 pm

    Update from this afternoon’s closed hearing re JA: Status conference 19th November, oral argument 26th November

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/01/2013 at 8:10 pm

      For cryin’ out loud….what is the holdup with that trial! For somebody who wanted to commit suicide so often and then wanted her “ultimate freedom” with the death penalty she and her sorry “duh”-fence are sure dragging their feet. Get it over already!

    • Lisa M
      11/01/2013 at 8:53 pm

      It’s the trial that will never end!! I predict that it still won’t be over in November of 2014!

  8. Lisa M
    11/01/2013 at 8:52 pm

    Hi Donchais. I’ve been enjoying reading your reports. Just haven’t posted before now. Your humor is such a breath of fresh air! Gypsy Willis has been giving me flashbacks to that other sociopath who just won’t go away. Although thankfully Gypsy’s time on the stand was brief, her demeanor was so inappropriate, the way she kept smiling. It also kind of reminded me of Dr. Conrad Murray’s baby mama when she was all smiles on the stand, talking about having to take care of her instrument. Gypsy is probably hoping someone hot will play her in the Lifetime movie.
    It’s beyond obvious that McNeil is a sociopath and I think I already know the answer to this but I’m wondering if the jury knows anything of his past criminal behavior, like the fraud/identity theft he participated in with Gypsy. I’m guessing its probably inadmissible but it would be awesome if the jury knew about it and some of his other shady dealings from the past as well.

  9. Lisa M
    11/01/2013 at 8:55 pm

    “Danger Will Robinson, Goofy alert!”

    Major LOLz

  10. Celeste Bergin
    11/01/2013 at 9:37 pm

    donchais, I read your summaries every day–I am kind of stupid and sometimes I have NO IDEA what I just heard. When I read your summaries it gets explained to me. I very much appreciate it! My favorite parts are your “asides” that you write in italics. It always makes me feel better to understand that you felt the same way I did during certain times. I hope you keep blogging—though it is understandable if you don’t. I also write a blog that takes tons of time and provides not much incentive….so I understand your frustration.

  11. 11/01/2013 at 10:39 pm

    Donchais, please don’t stop reporting on the trial. I enjoy reading your blog daily and love the comments. I wouldn’t of made it through the Jodi Arias trial with your blog. Thanks for all you do.

  12. cathyn518
    11/01/2013 at 11:27 pm

    I have only commented recently on this site but I have read rather regularly and have very much valued reading your synopsis. I can only say that I trust your . of the days events which I have to miss on occasion. Also, I appreciate the insight of your loyal contributors very much.

  13. Linda
    11/01/2013 at 11:52 pm

    I love this sight and go to it every evening and sometimes during the day if i get the chance just to read the comments. Please don’t stop .. Also i have a question . Is MM charged with murder charges ONLY or does he have lesser included charges also?

    • 11/02/2013 at 4:36 am

      Linda, could only find that he is charged with first degree murder and obstruction of justice.

  14. 11/02/2013 at 1:21 am

    I appreciate your daily recaps very much as I am working from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. 5 days a week and try to watch and listen at work but miss a lot. I realize what you are doing for us takes a lot of time and will understand if you decide not to do the recaps but hope that you can keep the comments open so I can at least catch up that way. You’re the best, Donchais!

  15. nyccowgirl
    11/02/2013 at 1:23 am

    thanks donchais and ritanita. this trial doesn’t get as much coverage as hodie, even hln doesn’t cover it religiously in their blog summaries so your blog is the only place i can catch up other than watching the videos. it doesn’t have the energy as mmd’s hubby so it makes me appreciate what you two do even more as i watched one once and wanted to poke my eye out, fell asleep many times and that includes having to fast forward a bunch. however, i understand and support you in your decision. either way, thanks for following these trials. i always wondered what ya did whereby ya would have the time to do this. i’m so envious sometimes, especially during hodie’s marathon. 🙂

  16. nyccowgirl
    11/02/2013 at 1:46 am

    there seems to be a lot more information in the arrest warrant that prosecution didn’t bring out in the trial, which i would think would be damning to the faux-doc. anyone know why a lot of this didn’t get brought up, including the trip during their anniversary to arizona and the letter from mayo clinic that busted him on his supposed cancer/ms? it just seems as if lots testified that he said he had those but not really any clear evidence that he didn’t other than the fact that he’s still alive and stopped using a cane…and that’s just me on page 7 of 57. lol

  17. 11/02/2013 at 3:39 am

    This looks like a pretty lame witness list for the Defense. Don’t see that they have one witness from Utah???

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS ) UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) ) V. ) NO. 99-CR-10371-DJC ) JAMES J. BULGER ) )
    DEFENDANT’S WITNESS LIST
    The defendant, James J. Bulger, submits this witness list
    pursuant to the Court’s Order dated March 26, 2013. ECF Dkt. No.
    851. The defendant reserves the right to supplement, modify or
    withdraw witnesses from this list.
    1. Michael Albano Medford, MA
    2. Earl Anderson Roseau, MN
    3. Jeannette Benedetti Walpole, MA
    4. Sam Berkowitz Royal Palm Beach FL 33411
    5. Brian Burke
    6. Howard Carr Brighton, MA 02135
    7. Jerry Campbell Boston, MA
    8. Neal Cherkas Chelsea, MA
    9. Jack Cloherty Winchester, MA 01890

  18. 11/02/2013 at 3:40 am

    OOPS!!! Never mind, wrong one!

  19. donchais
    11/02/2013 at 7:20 am

    Guess I was feeling a bit abandoned. Sorry folks.

    • Anonymous
      11/02/2013 at 7:43 am

      Seems folks are interested! It’s a tedious trial, in many ways, and for many JA trial watchers, way too tame.

      Personally, I’m almost thankful for that. Trials should not be circuses in the courtroom. I thought Spencer brought it all up a notch for sheer rudeness while not winning a point against the veteran Dr. Perper.

      I have so much respect for Dr. Perper. I’ve seen him on NG many times and he never leaps out on ledges like some other people she’s hosted. He answers her questions succinctly and doesn’t go beyond the information he has on the case. Spencer tried to make a big deal of the fact that he mentioned drowning from the get-go only goes to what evidence was available when that particular show went on air. I am pleased he appeared, because that’s what probably caught the prosecution’s notice.

      In addition, he did not declare her death a homicide, rather undetermined, but suspicious. This jury is acting as a Coroner’s Jury in terms of deciding COD. They have the right to examine all the evidence surrounding the death to make a determination. That’s called a circumstantial case.

      MM’s behavior before, during, and after the death is what will make the decision. It’s just too bad that he has the right to be judged only on this case and its surrounding circumstances, and not on a life based on lies.

      Don’t know and would never predict a verdict in any case. In fact, I never have, even with Casey Anthony. For me, it was always IF she were to be found guilty. Same here. It’s not our decision to make, but he sure looks guilty to me!

      • ritanita
        11/02/2013 at 9:12 am

        Sorry, I’m Nonymouse again!

    • September
      11/02/2013 at 10:28 am

      I rarely post, but when I read your original post I sat down and typed my heart only to have my computer crash. Finally got it fixed and first thing I did was come here. Dare I hope you have decided to continue? There are so many of is that follow you but don’t post often….I think the response has confirmed that. Thank you so much for all you do!!!!!
      One question……I noticed that the lawyers did not use Alexis’ title of doctor instead using Miss. How come……awfully disrespectful if you ask me. Hard work to earn that title should have been acknowledged.

  20. 11/02/2013 at 8:00 am

    Just stumbled on this. Excellent summary. Dr. Perper is brilliant! “Goofy” is an idiot.

  21. 11/02/2013 at 9:22 am

    Oh no Donchais, don’t leave us .We love you for all your hard word running this site This is my highlight of the day after the testimony. You are more appreciated than you can imagine, but I do understand your decision ether way. Thanks again!

    Ritanita – great overview! Donchais is lucky to have you aboard.

    Yesterday was beyond stupid with Goofy. Dr. Perper is so well respected and listening to the idiot trying to teach him medical facts was almost comical at times. Nurmi was annoying but this jerk may have outdone him. He bounces up from that chair reminds me of a schoolboy whining about nothing. Wonder if the jury felt the same way as us with the disrespect Goofy had towards Dr. Perper. They were definitely falling asleep. I realize the defense’s job is to try to discredit a witness – that was over-the-top. Wonder if the jury will consider these docs a wash. They’re going to have a hard time in deliberations with all the variations on the manner of death – it’s going to be a tough one for them to figure out. And, I believe defense has their own ME coming – not positive about that though. Too bad they don’t know the true MM as we do.

    What was Miss Piggy thinking she was going to a football game with that ponytail. That white lipstick is gross.

    Good thing the Pros have the inmates coming in after the docs – that’ll wake the jury up. The rights inmates and defendants get in the court system is quite annoying. The Pros are supposedly wrapping it up next week. Let’s see what the defense has for witnesses.

    I read somewhere that MM has a girlfriend that visits him in jail – more info coming after the trial on that.

    Ci-Ci – You were on roll yesterday – Your inputs are always right to the point. Enjoy your comments – keep them coming.

    Looks like the JA trial is going nowhere. How many more conference meetings are they going to have before the trial date gets set? JA is comfy right now in her home with the crap she’s allowed to do. She knows once in Perry – it’s a whole different story. With some luck she’ll piss the right person off and that’ll be the end of her – wishful thinking!

    dp – Did you get booted from the chat room? Just kidding. It’s boring over there lately. I did see the “Hello” comment the other day. TY. WAT’s always funny. By the way, I’m from Massachusetts.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/03/2013 at 11:59 am

      Ha ha ha…..yea for a while there we thought we were talking to ourselves or maybe our “seccatary” was typing in the wrong window! We were getting sooooo pissed off with Donkey Face……he was making such an ASS out of himself!!

    • 11/05/2013 at 11:27 am

      Hi Jessi. Did I get booted? MWWaaAAAAAAA. No, wifey came home for a week. I’ll be back.

      Donchais please keep posting on MM. I was gone for a few days and first thing I did was start treading your posts. I heart your posts.

      • 11/05/2013 at 11:29 am

        that would be reading your posts.

  22. Kristi
    11/02/2013 at 11:16 am

    Donchais, I appreciate your analysis and this forum. I haven’t been commenting lately, but I read it every day. You are so skilled at summarizing the daily trial events and giving us all a safe place to vent and discuss our frustration and sadness about these evil people out there is invaluable. I’m sure that most here would agree with me that CFJ was responsible for keeping us sane during the nightmare days of WOBOs testimony. Thank you for all that you do. That being said, I can only imagine that reporting on this day in and day out is emotionally draining for you. I would completely understand if you needed to take a vacation from it from time to time to recharge.

  23. Marilyn N
    11/02/2013 at 11:57 am

    I am here too, Donchais, watching trial and checking in here!!
    Thank you!!

  24. LadyinRed
    11/02/2013 at 12:33 pm

    Please keep blogging! I can only follow the trial via tweets during the work day, and your summary posts are wonderful to fill in the blanks! Loved Dr. Perper yesterday; I followed the Anna Nicole Smith case and he’s still as sharp as a tack!

  25. 11/02/2013 at 12:59 pm

    Keep up the good work explaining & commenting on the MacNeill trial. Your hard work is much appreciated!!

  26. 11/02/2013 at 1:19 pm

    Day 10 testimony at MacNeill trial: I found Smiley (nickname for the defense attorney in re: to his creepy (inappropriate) smile/smirk he can’t seem to control) very disrespectful to Dr. P! I’m sure the Jury was as bored & annoyed as we were listing to him (ineffectively) try to confuse/trip up Dr. P. He’s delusional if he thinks he scored any points with the Jury during his long medical misinterpretation! His continued attempt to make a fool and/or discredit Dr. P’s findings/opinion did nothing but make himself (defense) look desperate & asinine!

    • 11/02/2013 at 2:08 pm

      Ditto Ella, well said.

  27. 11/02/2013 at 2:17 pm

    Well Donchais, what do you think, do you understand that we love and appreciate you and ritanita,that we, and justice, and victims, need you?

    • 11/02/2013 at 4:35 pm

      Beans – Said short and sweet. Did you see the Juan/Gypsy video from Day 9? It’s hysterical! Hope your aunt is doing well.

      Not sure if this document has been posted, if so, ignore.

      http://whoopwhoop.tv/images/macneill-states-motion-in-limine-to-limit-testimony-of-defense-medical-experts.pdf

      Don’t see these two witnesses taking the stand. Friday, after the Judge favored the defense about additional info from the Rachel/Alexis, this certainly won’t. JMO. SIsters Elle and Giselle are also on the witness list – be curious to see if that happens.

      If only the jury knew the real MM. It sucks the way so much is excluded at trial by the Judge. This is our judicial system, – protect the defendant.

      • 11/02/2013 at 4:46 pm

        Jessi, I did see the vid., good stuff. Aunt’s fine, it’s an ongoing thing, I take her once a month, she needs to keep her weight under control and watch what she eats. off to check out your link now. Thanks for the props.

  28. donchais
    11/02/2013 at 4:26 pm

    Think I was just tired and depressed and feeling sorry for myself. Sorry for the pity party!
    {{{hugs}}} to all.

    • 11/02/2013 at 4:39 pm

      Not at all, I’ve been bummed for days because of this trial, and I’m not carrying the weight of trying to make sense of it, then blogging about it. The frustration factor of this trial, combined with still trying to make sense of stabbys ongoing efforts to undermine the justice system make for a heavy load – do what’s right for you.

  29. Schaeffer
    11/02/2013 at 6:36 pm

    Donchais — I have continued to follow you regularly, I just haven’t posted because I have had very little to say which I thought could add to the conversation. I haven’t been able to follow this trial as closely as I did WOBO’s, so your summary and the ensuing comments are quite helpful. I know it may seem as if you have been deserted based on the paucity of comments, especially as compared to those in WOBO’s trial, but the comments were scarce in the early days of that trial, too. Know you are greatly appreciated and admired, and make the decision which is best for you.

  30. Gal Friday
    11/02/2013 at 6:52 pm

    Donchais,

    I really appreciate all your hard work and insight regarding the MM case. I love your comments and recap. Thank you.

    Although I watch the trial on WAT, I could not endure the complete cross of Alexis and the MEs. If I found it boring, confusing and nit-picking, I can only imagine what the jury is thinking.

    Does anyone know anything about Gypsy’s child?
    And who is the biological father of Ada?

    • Lisa M
      11/05/2013 at 2:48 pm

      Gypsy has a child? Oh lord! Poor kid

      • Gal Friday
        11/05/2013 at 5:40 pm

        Fortunately for the child, Gypsy’s parents are raising her.

  31. Linda
    11/03/2013 at 1:05 am

    thank you beans.

  32. 11/03/2013 at 9:44 am

    Anyone interested in more MM stuff? Tricia has some interesting guests. CC & Ben have been at the trial most days. Tricia had some great interviews during the JA trial.

    http://t.co/EolQDsI2rI

    • Gal Friday
      11/03/2013 at 11:42 pm

      Thank you!

      Fantastic link.

      While listening to the radio broadcast discussion, I did learn that Gypy’s daughter is being raised by Gypsy’s parents. When the prosecution asked if Gypsy had ever been a nanny, I think a few good follow up questions would have been; “Have you had any experience with children? Are you raising your own daughter?”

  33. Schaeffer
    11/03/2013 at 4:48 pm

    Does anyone believe MM was possibly laying the groundwork for pulling a disappearing act with all this talk of terminal toe cancer and MS? I think he was getting a backup plan ready in case he got tired of waiting for the opportunity to murder Michele, or somehow couldn’t pull it off — like if Alexis figured out what was going on and successfully intervened. I can envision him saying he was going off to a foreign country for some exotic treatment and/or experimental cure, and then “dying” when it failed; his family would then receive a telegram saying his body had been cremated and the ashes “lost.” It would then be “Goodbye, family, Hello slut.”

    • 11/03/2013 at 5:05 pm

      Possibly, or maybe he was trying to elicit sympathy as a way of misdirecting suspicion away from him, but I do believe Michele’s murder was planned out well in advance and everything he did was staged.

      • Schaeffer
        11/03/2013 at 6:04 pm

        I agree the murder was planned well in advance, as were his overly-rehearsed “reactions.” As evil as he is, though, I think he would have been working on more than one scenario, just to cover his bases.

      • 11/03/2013 at 6:16 pm

        no argument here Schaeffer, think we’re on the same page.

  34. 11/03/2013 at 10:34 pm

    Has it been mentioned where Gypsy was on the morning of April 11, 2007…could she have possible been in the garage waiting for everyone to leave…was she the one that cleaned up while MM was pretending he was the devastated spouse…I wonder!

  35. Schaeffer
    11/04/2013 at 2:07 am

    Beans, MM could also have been planning on Michele having an “accident” on a cruise, should he ever get her on a boat. Between 2010 and 2012, 41 people went overboard or missing during a cruise. (Sounds like a lot, doesn’t it?) Obviously these statistics post-date Michele’s murder, but it was 2005 when that groom went missing during his honeymoon, so MM could have seized on the idea at that time.

    • 11/04/2013 at 5:51 am

      Schaeffer,I had no idea the number was that high. One has to wonder how many different plots MM had considered and how many times Michele may have escaped being murdered before he settled on the idea of coercing her to have needless surgery so he would have an excuse to pump the drugs into her. I spent some time last night thinking about what you said concerning the MS/cancer ploy and I think you are absolutely correct.

    • nyccowgirl
      11/04/2013 at 11:03 pm

      one of the documents said that there was no evidence that he actually ever booked a cruise.

  36. cathyn518
    11/04/2013 at 9:55 pm

    No work for me tomorrow so I am looking forward to watching this trial with my cat ,my Keruig and the left over Milky way bars from Halloween. I will stop by to read your insightful comments throughout the day. Am I right and remembering the trial starts at 10:30 tomorrow- 12:30 for me?

    • 11/05/2013 at 4:13 am

      Cathy,I have 12:00 est marked on my calender.

      • donchais
        11/05/2013 at 8:58 am

        Try 11:45. I believe lawyers were told to be there then for any housekeeping issues.

  37. dramsop
    11/04/2013 at 11:14 pm

    Hi Donchais. I, too am guilty of stopping in but not commenting. I regularly check in to your site for an update – but I have to be honest here- by the end of the Arias trial I stopped reading the comments and commenting at all . It seemed to have tipped the scales into a “dear diary””clique” among some of the readers and a lot of comments about individual’s personal lives, which is not at all what I am interested in. So, I still faithfully read your excellent summaries and commentary, but usually skip the comments. Thanks for a great job in your posts!!

    • 11/05/2013 at 4:26 pm

      Maybe, if you felt that strongly about it, you should have tried contributing something relevant rather than judging others who had become friends on this site and who were trying to keep the forum going while awaiting new developments in the Arias trial. Sorry donchais, I’ll leave now if you want me to.

      • donchais
        11/05/2013 at 4:45 pm

        People are free to come and go…while I appreciate loyalty, all can go where they please…I own nobody and nobody owns me!

    • 11/05/2013 at 5:22 pm

      did I offend thee, dramsop?

  38. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 11:07 am

    Trial starts at 10:00 MST! Inmates supposed to testify today! Should be interesting to see how their testimony ties in with the Prosecution. We truly believe that there must be some meat to it or the Prosecution would not jeopardize their case. The fact that there are 4 inmates who have come forward and only 2 were at the same location with each other, there are still 2 more who also have information. They may not be taken credibly in all cases, but in this case, there has to be some meat there. Hope it’s enough to put this murderer away!!

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/05/2013 at 11:07 am

      Oops…..dang!!….Good Morning Everyone!

      • 11/05/2013 at 11:47 am

        Good morning ladies.

  39. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 11:09 am

    Jessi :Anyone interested in more MM stuff? Tricia has some interesting guests. CC & Ben have been at the trial most days. Tricia had some great interviews during the JA trial.
    http://t.co/EolQDsI2rI

    Thanks for sharing Jesssi!! We listened to this recording this morning! Lots of information and theories! Got us all fired up now and we’re ready for the day!!

  40. ritanita
    11/05/2013 at 11:39 am

    Morning all! Let’s see how credible the inmates can be…

    • 11/05/2013 at 11:47 am

      Morning ritanita, as previously stated, I’m leaning towards not very. Always sceptical of these guys, but we’ll see.

      • ritanita
        11/05/2013 at 12:07 pm

        As I’m listening, there are both Federal and State prisoners in 2 states saying similar things. It’s not a group gang-up which helps.

        Think the judge is going to let this “bitch” comment in.

      • 11/05/2013 at 12:08 pm

        That’s what I’m getting too.

      • ritanita
        11/05/2013 at 12:10 pm

        Also Jason P., a People reporter. Note the negative decision about the last comment. I can live with that one.

      • ritanita
        11/05/2013 at 12:19 pm

        Sorry, Jason P. is an inmate. Where did I get that idea???

      • 11/05/2013 at 12:20 pm

        Agree, this judge always impresses me with the clarity and rationale used for his decisions, even when I don’t like them.

  41. 11/05/2013 at 12:23 pm

    Hey all. D, keep up the stellar work, please. I creep a lot, but have been traveling a bunch and the dog keeps me busy. Plus Justin Timberlake just gave me my myspace writings back, so I’ve been full tilt boogie trying to put them in with the other stuff I’ve been writing…and with any luck can lash them into some kind of cohesive memoir…come to think of it my future ex-wife just told me she has my book on the Michael Jackson trial…and I thought it was lost forever…Also I was just reunited with some property that means a lot to me…jeesus…Not to mention, when I got back into Tennessee last night I was greeted by a stack of mail, and a very nice card and note from Samantha Alexander. She thanked me for sending her something a while ago and said she’d pass it on to Stevus. The Alexander family thanks you guys deeply. Gotta run, a friend of mine is in need of an intervention, and If I don’t get back up to Philly quick, he might not be around tomorrow…Peace and Love. Drama…

    • 11/05/2013 at 12:28 pm

      Stay safe Bubbs.

  42. 11/05/2013 at 12:26 pm

    ritanita :
    Sorry, Jason P. is an inmate. Where did I get that idea???

    Too funny, You threw me for a loop, I was thinking ‘who?’

  43. ritanita
    11/05/2013 at 12:41 pm

    Boy, Jason P. is a total slime-ball!

  44. 11/05/2013 at 12:41 pm

    What a life these defense lawyers lead, everybody has a reason to lie, except their client, who murdered his wife, sexually assaulted a daughter, discarded all his children, cheated multiple times on his wife, lied about several illnesses, lied about his education – I could go on, but really, why bother, he’s telling the truth.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/05/2013 at 12:44 pm

      AGREE!! Let’s compare what the inmates have done vs. what MM has done! Now we’re talkin’……the guy is a crook and murderer and that’s why he felt he was in his element when he opened his mouth to these guys!! He was BRAGGING and was soooo full of himself it never occurred to him they would turn on him now!!

      • cathyn518
        11/05/2013 at 2:34 pm

        Agree too!
        It sounds like these inmates are in for drug offenses, not violent crimes of murdering a Mother of 8

  45. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 12:41 pm

    You would think that they would have had this all hashed out BEFORE reaching this day! Why weren’t these motions to omit some things from cross discussed when the inmates were put on the witness list?!!

  46. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 12:47 pm

    M Johns ‏@TrialWatcher13 9m @WinnieMuch1 @gypsymiss So much being left out about #MartinMacNeill yet defense trying to get EVERYTHING in about convicts. #SoHypocritical

    • ritanita
      11/05/2013 at 12:59 pm

      That’s the truth! MM did far worse than these guys in so many ways. Fact is, some “snitches” are credible, others aren’t. Let’s see how they come off. It’s a tad difficult since we have to go by verbal cues only

  47. ritanita
    11/05/2013 at 1:09 pm

    ME investigator didn’t bother to question anyone involved at the scene. Poor investigation, IMHO. I hope the jury “gets” it.

    • 11/05/2013 at 1:19 pm

      It appears they did, no questions.

  48. 11/05/2013 at 1:14 pm

    MM’s looking kinda pensive there, thinking, “damn why did I go and kill her” – writes note to self – ‘next time explore divorce as an alternative to marriage.’

  49. Schaeffer
    11/05/2013 at 1:31 pm

    Dipsy — I love it!

    • cathyn518
      11/05/2013 at 2:36 pm

      Dipsy and the Doc- so alike in so many heinous ways

    • essem58
      11/05/2013 at 2:38 pm

      Best thing I heard and then when the prosecutor repeated it. Dipsy the heavy set woman with long dark hair. Isn’t that the truth!?!? And Donkey’s trying to make these guys sound like they are lying?!?

  50. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 1:53 pm

    Answer the question Donkey Face!! Is the inmate correct or not? Is this a federal or state case….simple yes or no!! Donkey Face could not take the fact that the inmate corrected HIM!! HAH….1 UP FOR THE INMATE!!

  51. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 1:58 pm

    Donkey Face uses his pen as a pacifier. He’s chewing the hell out of it!!

    • 11/05/2013 at 2:02 pm

      weaned too early, those choppers probably irritated the hell out of mom.(forgive me)

  52. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 2:04 pm

    OMG Donkey Face….get your shit together!! You get up there and ask a question like you know it all and the inmate corrects you again!! Hah…2 UP FOR THE INMATE!!

    • 11/05/2013 at 2:07 pm

      thinking the same thing, Bob was schooled by a convict

      • 11/05/2013 at 2:08 pm

        oops “getting schooled”

  53. ritanita
    11/05/2013 at 2:23 pm

    Gustin not looking good today.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/05/2013 at 2:33 pm

      Does she ever? That face lift she had is so bad she looks like the Joker on Batman!

      • cathyn518
        11/05/2013 at 2:37 pm

        I can’t believe she’s old enough to have a face lift?

  54. 11/05/2013 at 2:29 pm

    Hah, good answer- ‘a death sentence for being here’

  55. 11/05/2013 at 3:21 pm

    cathyn518 :
    I can’t believe she’s old enough to have a face lift?

    she probably hasn’t had one, we’re just mean to defense lawyers.

  56. 11/05/2013 at 3:23 pm

    Well, we’re learning there aren’t a lot of genius’ doing hard time – who knew?

  57. 11/05/2013 at 3:55 pm

    I’m seeing a trend here, Bob gets all toothy/smiley before he calls you a liar.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/05/2013 at 4:00 pm

      Yea….we noticed that too! Wonder if the witnesses can see through him?

  58. ritanita
    11/05/2013 at 3:57 pm

    At this point, why do I hear myself saying, “crash and burn?”

  59. Ci Ci's Circle
    11/05/2013 at 4:02 pm

    he he he he…..

    NC ‏@nrc712 5m Spencer looks like donkey from Shrek!! #MartinMacNeill

  60. ritanita
    11/05/2013 at 4:34 pm

    I have to wonder if this last guy will even get to testify. HLN is not saying that the last inmate is “going to” say MM said he did it. Since they’re behind, they don’t know that he never said that!

    • ritanita
      11/05/2013 at 4:38 pm

      I have to add that someone on HLN said what I’ve been thinking, they should shut down the prosecution now. But, prosecution WILL be calling Gypsy back tomorrow!

      • 11/05/2013 at 4:45 pm

        can you tell me why ritanita, I was distracted and missed it. (and i’d like to say you’re doing a hellava job.)

      • ritanita
        11/05/2013 at 4:50 pm

        The last inmate to testify didn’t give him the information they expected. He was supposed to say that MM said he’d drugged and drowned his wife. Instead he said death was by medication and heart problem.

        The next one is very problematic. He’s really not needed if he’s going to take the 5th. However, we learned there will be arguments tomorrow about if he can testify at all if he takes the 5th.

        As for Gypsy, I wrote that before I realized the defense was going to call her to the stand again. Should be interesting.

        I’m not sure what the 4th anonymous inmate is going to say, but I think the first 2 were enough to get the idea that MM told them she drowned (instead of heart problem). Also, about his “wife” Gypsy in prison and their communication.

        I was having some bad moments with that investigator… creeped me out! Guess it put me in a bad mood.

    • Ci Ci's Circle
      11/05/2013 at 4:43 pm

      Isn’t he the one that said MM said to him that “he held her head under water”?

  61. essem58
    11/06/2013 at 4:26 am

    So Dipsy is back tomorrow for another try. Hope the prosecution really ask her the hard questions and force answers this time.

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